oh zak

spazegun2213 · Post by **spazegun2213** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 4:09 pm

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=916234

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:11 pm

I hate you. Why do you have to make me spend my money like that? I PMed him and we will see.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 5:55 pm

I know what you mean, Zak. Darrin was trying to get me to spend money on big brake kits from NASIOC too!

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:39 pm

^^^ Darrin and Zak are the cause of me spending way too much money!

Zak, you know you want it!!!!

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:45 pm

Peoblem is, the goy don't know what it is. Says the block "works with AVCS". Any EJ2 block will work with avcs, that is just a function of the heads. He also says that the JDM 2.5 is better thatn the EJ257, but can't give me the engine code designator, or the differences.

I have been ripped off before, not looking to do it again.

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:51 pm

There is an old phrase about a fool and his money. . . but i can't remember how it goes.

I also saw that post last night. I was able to chant my mantra for about an hour and was finally able to NOT respond.

Try to get him to sell you the whole long block for $2,200! You'll save the $700 in parts and labor!

Come on Zak do it . . . it's only money, you can always make more.

For the record, I don't think there is ANY difference between the JDM 2.5 on the forester and the 2.5 on the USDM STi. I have seen a bunch of posts on NASIOC and there has not been any conclusion other than they appear to be exactly the same! I also don't think the seller is claiming that this is "better than" the STi 2.5, just the same.

spazegun2213 · Post by **spazegun2213** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:51 pm

man, if i were in town, i would so be like, ok.. let me see it. The odds are he does not know his ass from his elbow about engines.. all he knows is its "jdm" and how "cool" that is.

I think if its good stuff you could take him to town on the price.

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 8:55 pm

drwrx wrote: I also saw that post last night. I was able to chant my mantra for about an hour and was finally able to NOT respond.

lol, you know... You could use a long block too Darrin

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:06 pm

I would love if it worked, but I have to know what about this is diff than USDM. If it is the same set of heads from a v7 or v8, then I can still use my AusDM Utec and ECU. If it is USMD, gotta sell the EM bits.

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 9:22 pm

zaxrex wrote:I would love if it worked, but I have to know what about this is diff than USDM. If it is the same set of heads from a v7 or v8, then I can still use my AusDM Utec and ECU. If it is USMD, gotta sell the EM bits.

A quick call/ e-mail to Gruppe-s might answer your question. They get JDM swaps all the time, as per their site:

JDM FXT EJ257 MOTOR
The JDM XT 2.5 EJ257 Engine makes an excellent swap for any WRX owner looking for STI performance from their WRX.

The JDM XT 2.5 EJ257 is essentially an identical engine to its brother the USDM STI 2.5 engine but at a much lower price. The engines feature a completely forged rotating assembly with hyper-cast pistons that is capable of safely withstanding an incredible 500HP.

Compared to the USDM WRX engine, the larger bore (100mm versus 92mm) and increased stroke (79mm versus 75mm) significantly increases the midrange power output and maintains a broad power band even with much larger turbochargers such as the Garrett GT30R. In essence an EJ257 all but eliminates the excessive big-turbo lag associated with the EJ20 WRX. Furthermore the increased displacement helps to increase power output even when using less than optimal fuel, such as California’s 91 octane.

The EJ257’s improvements (over the WRX) continue with the heads and valve-train. With a much improved casting, the EJ257 boasts a larger intake port size, larger compression area, larger valves, and of course more aggressive camshafts.

Given proper tuning and setup, the JDM FXT EJ257 is perfect for larger than stock turbochargers. On average with turbochargers such as a GT30R, we have seen gains of over 50whp and substantial improvements in the midrange power (reduction in turbo lag) in comparison (see graph).

Swapping an EJ257 JDM FXT into a USDM WRX is a straight-forward process. The intake manifold is simply switched over (along with injectors, rails etc.) and the engine is dropped in. The custom cam-position sensor (we supply this) is bolted into place with the factory cam-position sensor, and the FXT cam-position and AVCS sensors are left unconnected. ECU recalibration is required for this particular engine.

We offer in-house installation, setup, and professional dyno-tuning, including ECU reprogramming (Ecutek) and stand-alone engine management installation. Please contact us for any questions regarding our services.

ABOUT OUR ENGINES:

All our engines are inspected, leaked down, and compression tested. These particular FXT motors are all less than 1000km and are practically brand new. You MUST follow standard break-in procedures on these engines (500km). We offer start-up warranty on all our engines.

$2999 Shipping and crating is additional

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:47 pm

Yeah, I gave that same site to Alex and said that if he is selling what is pictured from the Gruppe S site, I would pay to have a leak-down test done on it so I could see the results. If everything is as advertised, I'd drive on up and take a look for myself.

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Tue Jan 10, 2006 11:59 pm

If he is willing to sell the entire long-block for $2,000 or so and it's in good shape that's worth it. Any word as to whether your ECU and UTEC will work with it?

Post by **complacent** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:50 am

I do remember Phil saying that the JDM Forester and USDM STi block were IDENTICAL, down to valve part numbers, etc. Same motor, great price.

<----Sooooo glad I already have a 2.5, I'd be reeeely sweating the choice out otherwise.

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:51 pm

bluscooby23 wrote:<----Sooooo glad I already have a 2.5, I'd be reeeely sweating the choice out otherwise.

STOP! STOP! Your killing me!

I think I need to have my mantra tattooed on the inside of my eyelids so I can just close my eyes and find peace and serenity and stop thinking about 2.5 swaps.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 2:59 pm

drwrx wrote:I think I need to have my mantra tattooed on the inside of my eyelids so I can just close my eyes and find peace and serenity and stop thinking about 2.5 swaps.

now THAT would be a great tattoo!

Post by **Sabre** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:30 pm

<Peer pressure> Come on Darrin, you know you want one...

</Peer pressure>

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:53 pm

The problem is not with the wanting . . .
It's with the getting!
Let's do the math: (all numbers are estimations)
2.5 long block: $2,500-$3,000
Install: $1,600-$2,000
ECU: $800
UTEC (or other EM): $800
Turbo (SZ55 or FP Red): $1,400-$1,500 (or $250 to turn vf22 into pe1820)
Bigger injectors: $300
Dyno Tune: $400
Are you beginning to understand?
Now throw in the fact that my transmission won't hold out long with that kind of power, and a STi tranny runs around $3,000 plus $1,000 for install.
What's the old saying, "a million here a million there soon your talking real money!"

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:01 pm

speed costs money: how fast do you want to go?

want to make a small fortune in racing? start with a large one.

my WRX doesn't need to be ANY faster.

OK, so that last one was me.

Post by **complacent** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:51 pm

Sorry Darrin,

I didn't mean to get ya all worked up. I'll try and bring you back down gently...

Remember, with increased torque, comes increased strain on gears. The stock five speed has well documented physical limits. If you get a 2.5 it will be a matter of when, not if your second gear explodes. Add the cost of RA gears (1200 or so UNinstalled) or a PPG 1-4 (5-6K, IIRC) to the initial purchase price of the motor (2K), plus installation (another 1-2K) and you're looking at quite an expensive venture.

Did that help at all?

(i'd probably still do it though)

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:54 pm

Mr Kleen wrote:speed costs money: how fast do you want to go?

want to make a small fortune in racing? start with a large one.

my WRX doesn't need to be ANY faster.

While the first two are very true, there is big difference between a $7,000+ 2.5 engine swap and $800 turbo/injector/fuel pump swap.

A vf30/34, pinks and pump would net you (stock WRX) around 50-60 whp. That's around $16-$13 per whp and can turn a 6 second 0-60, 14 second 1/4 mile @ 90 mph stock WRX into a sub 5 second 0-60, 13 second 1/4 mile @ 105mph EVO/STi challenger, which is a steal in the world of speed.

Granted, the injector install is a pain, but I'm sure you could find some help from the those of us who have gone before you.

Again, I'm not trying to push you, and if your satisfied with your current power, than congrats, your a better man than I. However, the cost of a turbo/injector/pump swap is about the same cost as a set of wheels and tires or springs and struts or a turbo-back exhaust or a set of headers and a big TMIC or engine management or a big brake kit or . . . well, you get the idea.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:54 pm

yeah, I hear you! but my budget is a lot tighter than some of the people here. I have to do a lot of cost/benefit analysis before I make purchases (even with no wife to hold me back). this car has to be my everything and so far she's gangbusters.

when I do get the sickness, I know who to turn to.

now about looting your dumpster for that old BBK you're going to throw away when you get your '06...

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:10 pm

drwrx wrote:If he is willing to sell the entire long-block for $2,000 or so and it's in good shape that's worth it. Any word as to whether your ECU and UTEC will work with it?

Yeah, that is what I'm thinking. BTW, I have the JDM v7 ECU and the AusDM Utec the get away from the higher impeedence injector and other sensor issues and allow the AVCS to work. It works on paper.

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:18 pm

I totally understand! And I certainly don't want to pester you.
However, I will still keep my eyes and ears open for any steals I find.

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:19 pm

zaxrex wrote:It works on paper.

I just got a chill down my spine!

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:58 pm

zaxrex wrote:
drwrx wrote:BTW, I have the JDM v7 ECU and the AusDM Utec the get away from the higher impeedence injector and other sensor issues and allow the AVCS to work. It works on paper.

How does that work w/ the OBDII emissions check?