-1/+2 swap

[avriette]

Thinking of doing a -1/+2 sprocket swap (Kawi used to sell a kit to do it, it's the most-often recommended mod after the +4 degrees ignition timing advance for the ZX7), but it looks like the tools required to "break" the chain are expensive or fidgety. Anyone have the tools to do this? I'll also probably need a rear stand. I've got rear spools... Anyone? Bueller? Anyone?

[complacent]

I has neither.

Been looking into buying a good breaker and press, but I've also been looking into a shaft drive motorbike...

I has a torn.

[avriette]

http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk25 ... 20Rebuild/

Looks like the front sprocket cover is not so bad, and since I already have rear spools, it should be fine enough to put the bike up on the spools and a jack stand, then take the rear wheel off and swap sprockets/chain. I'll still need to break the chain and put the new one together, but I think I have a friend (via Sandy) who has the exact tools I require.

[complacent]

I know that both the breaker and the press are not cheap at all.

Compound that with the front sprocket removal. Not sure how easy yours is to get to. Mine looks like a to get at.

It will be cheaper in the long run if you plan to change more than one chain.

Rocket science it isn't... But might take longer than expected the first time.

I'm more than willing to lend a hand.

[snaab]

Also, please consider a center stand intead of a rear stand. It's probably cheaper, and it rolls with the bike!

[avriette]

Also, please consider a center stand intead of a rear stand. It's probably cheaper, and it rolls with the bike!

Yeah, it's going to need more than a rear stand. Looking at those videos, I'm in for a lot of hard work for what is some really dead-simple installation (put two sprockets on two spindles, wrap a chain, link both ends, and vroom). On the one hand, I really want to get more familiar with two-wheel mechanics (I keep thinking, "well, that's not how it would work on a car!"), and on the other, I figure it's already a fast bike and why in the hell do I want the different sprockets anyways? And +4 timing advance?

Well, because those are the basic performance upgrades. That, and removing the emissions stuff. Then it's about $1k for a Muzzy's full exhaust (Colin, you gotta hook me up with your brother and his flame-spitting Ninja, I need the details!!), so it seems like just putting labor into about $200 in parts is a good deal. As far as the timing goes, +4 should make it actually run a lot better when it's not wound out above 8000rpm.

I'm also a little torn because I don't want to make what seems like a "pretty" bike into a "rat bike," but I think provided I keep the fairings on it and don't do stupid shit like 18" longer swingarm (as if the bike needed that!) and underlighting, it retains its character: mean and grumpy below 3,000rpm, even tempered at 4-6k, and singing happily anywhere above 8-9k, all the while looking swoopy and sparkly.

There's also the question: "Why are you putting a ZX9 motor in your ZX7? Buy a damn ZX9, or ZZR1200 already!" I dunno. It looks like the next bike is going to be "Sandy's," which means I get to wait a while before that Fireblade or 600RR shows up (and I'm not real worried about losing money on aftermarket parts on the bike, as I'm not selling it any time soon...), and in the meantime, I'd like to make the bike feel like I want it to. She put the kibosh on modifying the Subaru because she was worried about safety. But since she can't possibly ride the bike, why not do the mods, get the adjustable rearsets, levers, grips, etc?

And there's no reason we can't have four bikes, either. I'm sure we'd even get a discount from Geico at that point.

[avriette]

Spent a few hours with the FSM last night. They say put the rear end up on a rear stand (with spools) and the sidestand (not sure this would actually touch with the rear up...?). The front sprocket cover is easy to get at, the rear axle is easy enough to work with, yank the wheel, yank the sprocket, replace and lube chain and sprockets, done. Looks like an all-day weekend project, but nothing near as bloody as I thought it would be.

The real problem is the 130ft-lbs on the counter sprocket. Gonna need a breaker bar or torque wrench to make sure it gets on and off correctly. Everything else is cake.

Who's game?

[complacent]

I'm in. You have the chain press? From what I've read, I wouldn't use anything other than a press-in link. All other types tend to fail dramatically and do silly things like remove your left leg below the knee.

I'm just sayin... a open ended chain thrashing at 8,000 RPM makes for one REEEEELY angry weed-whacker.

[avriette]

I'm in. You have the chain press? From what I've read, I wouldn't use anything other than a press-in link. All other types tend to fail dramatically and do silly things like remove your left leg below the knee.

FSM says the chain is "endless," but I'm not sure I understand that correctly. Does this mean it does not have a master link and that you just use the tensioner to install?

and re: tools, I have friends in low places. With bikes.

[complacent]

You're getting the OEM chain? Does it not have a master link? I thought every chain had a master link.

Then again, I've never had anything other than an aftermarket replacement chain on my bikes.

Have you called the parts dept? Might be a good (albeit kinda silly feeling/sounding) question to ask.

[complacent]

I just realized that I need to replace the chain and sprockets on the SV.

Between the two of us it might be worth getting the tools, cost-sharing and all.

Thoughts?

[Libra Monkee]

I might have to get in on this too.The bike's been making noises that, the shop tells me, means it needs new sprockets. Plus, seeing as the bike is almost six years old and still on it's original chain, it might be time to replace that too.

[complacent]

word, lemme look into prices and sheite. Ideally, we should get the most kick assed breaker & press available. IMHO you never buy a cheap tool. You almost always end up regretting it.

[avriette]

word, lemme look into prices and sheite. Ideally, we should get the most kick assed breaker & press available. IMHO you never buy a cheap tool. You almost always end up regretting it.

Yeah, count me in. I got at least four sprockets that need to be "maintained." Cost sharing would be good. You wanna come up with the pieces/prices?

Also, re the chain, I don't know if the chain on there is OEM or not (I don't have a rear stand, I suppose I could roll it and check manually), but if it's OEM it's not too hard to take off (no need to break it) or put on (just tension it) but no, I was not buying an OEM chain. I guess I do need a press for the new chain.

[complacent]

word, lemme look into prices and sheite. Ideally, we should get the most kick assed breaker & press available. IMHO you never buy a cheap tool. You almost always end up regretting it.

Yeah, count me in. I got at least four sprockets that need to be "maintained." Cost sharing would be good. You wanna come up with the pieces/prices?

Also, re the chain, I don't know if the chain on there is OEM or not (I don't have a rear stand, I suppose I could roll it and check manually), but if it's OEM it's not too hard to take off (no need to break it) or put on (just tension it) but no, I was not buying an OEM chain. I guess I do need a press for the new chain.

Cool, I'll get some numbers out to you both this weekend. I'd like to get this done in time to ride the SV down to my father for Thanksgiving and in a big way.

[avriette]

Cool, I'll get some numbers out to you both this weekend. I'd like to get this done in time to ride the SV down to my father for Thanksgiving and in a big way.

Hurrrrr..... I has all the part #'s ready (for the sprockets/chain, that is) from solomotoparts.com. I am appalled to discover I could buy a +20 rear sprocket. Oh, and you know, the "12 o'clock bar" so I could, yeah, ride to work on the rear wheel, dragging my heel on the pavement. Maybe I could wave at APD as I swing through radar trap city going 44mph.

[avriette]

and re: tools, I have friends in low places. With bikes.

Ah, and let me clarify.

Yeah, I've never done anything like that. I look at the service manual and if it looks hairy, I just take it to the shop.

Nope! I don't have the tools! You're right, I'm a shaft guy, but I let the shop do all the work on my bikes.

I don't work on my own fucking bike, that's what the shop is for.

-silence-

So, no has tools, and I don't have helpful advice from anyone, either. I have the manual for my bike, I gather between the two of you, or Mike, or AJ711, y'all can scare up a SV manual.... Are you offering your garage? And would this be three chains, four sprockets, or what? That sounds like a lot more than a Saturday's work – not that I'm complaining, but planning has never been our strong suite

[complacent]

Sprockets front and rear plus a new chain should be a two to three hour jerb per bike. Should be.

I will have all the tools (impact, stand, jacks, chain breaker & press, loctite, torque wrench, etc) needed by next week or so. I will be out of town Halloween weekend, so we'll have to plan for another weekend.

Available I've got the following:

8-9 Nov

15-16 Nov

I'm all spent up after that.

How many are we doing? Alex and Sandy's bikes? Do both need it? Or are you interested in spending the $ to get the experience? I need to square the SV for my dad. Chuck needs his as well. Are you in this as well AJ? I would think unless you've ignored your b0nk or have been riding like a madman, you're probably good as well, yes?

The only thing I'm not 100% on are the size of the front sprocket nuts. I've got 24, 27, 30, 32 mm impact sockets. I know the 99-01 SVs use a 32mm nut. I've no idea about teh kawi or the newer sv nekkid. You will need to pick up a deep-well impact socket for your corresponding nut size - if you have an odd sized nut that is.

Also, it looks like some brands offer chains that are the correct number of links for a stock set of sprockets (no cutting excess links), which could make the process easier for us. I've been looking at DID brand (based on many recommendations from SVRider) and you can get a ballpark feel for price here.

Depending on turnout, we should probably budget on two full working days. I'll make every allowance for time possible, but if a Sunday install runs into a snag, I won't have the time to spare during the following week. Don't want to sound uncool, just wanna make everyone awares and all.

So there it is... Thoughts?

[avriette]

I will have all the tools (impact, stand, jacks, chain breaker & press, loctite, torque wrench, etc) needed by next week or so. I will be out of town Halloween weekend, so we'll have to plan for another weekend.

I replaced your driver last night at Sears. It now has one ball.

How many are we doing? Alex and Sandy's bikes? Do both need it? Or are you interested in spending the $ to get the experience? I need to square the SV for my dad. Chuck needs his as well. Are you in this as well AJ? I would think unless you've ignored your b0nk or have been riding like a madman, you're probably good as well, yes?

Sandy, no. Alex, yes. Chuck said he needs it, so it sounds like an unspecified number of sprockets, but three bikes. I don't know if you guys are doing both the drive and counter sprockets. Like I said, the counter sprocket is really easy to get to on my bike (easier than the oil filter, in fact) so I see no real reason not to (otherwise I might just go with a +2 out back and be done with it). For her, after I do mine, hers is a cinch and I can do it on my own. She's in no hurry.

I'm not sure it adds that much more time to do the front as well (or saves by not doing it...).

The only thing I'm not 100% on are the size of the front sprocket nuts. I've got 24, 27, 30, 32 mm impact sockets. I know the 99-01 SVs use a 32mm nut. I've no idea about teh kawi or the newer sv nekkid. You will need to pick up a deep-well impact socket for your corresponding nut size - if you have an odd sized nut that is.

I'll have a look at my FSM tonight. I'm concerned about the axle, actually. Looks like it hasn't been touched since 1996. Not that it's high-mileage, it's just that it's probably going to be a pain in the ass to get off there.

Also, it looks like some brands offer chains that are the correct number of links for a stock set of sprockets (no cutting excess links),

I'm ordering a chain and sprocket set with the right sized chain for the sprockets. I was looking around at brands, but the choice seems to be between 7075 al vs steel, and then the "stealth" ones with steel teeth on an al wheel. I opted for the latter. I'm not sure what other characteristics make one sprocket better than another; they're pretty simple devices.

Depending on turnout, we should probably budget on two full working days. I'll make every allowance for time possible, but if a Sunday install runs into a snag, I won't have the time to spare during the following week. Don't want to sound uncool, just wanna make everyone awares and all.

I'm in. Are you looking at this AFAM press kit that's $100 (reviewed as "nice, but pricey") or...? I'm buying it as a kit, so I need the breaker and the press – I'll buy sockets for the nuts, I'll need them anyways – what are you looking at?

Also, have you seen this "speedohealer" product? I don't see any mention of how it works other than it is OMG MAGICAL. Does it work with analogue gauges? I know it's a huge pain in the ass to "fix" the speedo on cars when you change gearing or wheel diameter.

[complacent]

The tool kit that I ordered was this one.

I don't buy tools twice. As far as impact sockets go, I already have a standard deep-well metric kit.

Awesomesauce and thanks for the Sears trip. Much appreciated.

Old parts will most likely be persnickety. We'll have to plan accordingly.

It is generally considered a good idea to replace both sprockets with a chain jerb... They wear differently and it's better to have a "matched" set. Some say hogwash, some swear by it. I'm of the latter. YMMV.

I'm pretty sure the diff btw steel and aluminium is longevity. Obviously harder lasts longer... heh.

Speedohealer does work well, but there's a tradeoff. You can have a perfectly accurate speedo. You can have an accurate ODO. Pick one. I've always figured out the speedo error % and dealt with it. Easier to explain that than mileage discrepancies, especially come resale time. Again, IMHO, YMMV.

[Libra Monkee]

Research, must be done.

Decisions, must be come to.

Parts, must be purchased.

Chains, must be lubed.

Mistakes, will be made.

I, will get on it.

[avriette]

The tool kit that I ordered was this one.

Yeah, that's the one people seem to like.

Awesomesauce and thanks for the Sears trip. Much appreciated.

anything to get out on the bike, man. 'sides, thanks for the favor.

Old parts will most be persnickety. We'll have to plan accordingly.

fixt.

I'm pretty sure the diff btw steel and aluminium is longevity. Obviously harder lasts longer... heh.

and rotational weight.

Speedohealer does work well, but there's a tradeoff. You can have a perfectly accurate speedo. You can have an accurate ODO. Pick one. I've always figured out the speedo error % and dealt with it. Easier to explain that than mileage discrepancies, especially come resale time. Again, IMHO, YMMV.

WTF? do the odo and speedo not work on the same gear?

[complacent]

I'm pretty sure the diff btw steel and aluminium is longevity. Obviously harder lasts longer... heh.

and rotational weight.

If those precious ounces matter, you'd better be riding with folks like stoner and rossi...

Speedohealer does work well, but there's a tradeoff. You can have a perfectly accurate speedo. You can have an accurate ODO. Pick one. I've always figured out the speedo error % and dealt with it. Easier to explain that than mileage discrepancies, especially come resale time. Again, IMHO, YMMV.

WTF? do the odo and speedo not work on the same gear?

Their damn site is completely in flash (who the even does that anymore??) but taken from there:

Accurate speedometer and/or odometer no matter what you change on your vehicle.

You can find the product hmah.

[avriette]

If those precious ounces matter, you'd better be riding with folks like stoner and rossi...

I'm just sayin'. Obviously, I'm not going to notice. Although I will say that it is something that is finite and measurable, and makes a difference at least to people who race in competitive amateur circuits (like the 250's). The fact that most drivers aren't capable of making use of the additional weight savings in each wheel doesn't stop Porsche from trying to cast (or forge) hollow spokes, making pieces of pistons from ceramics instead of metal, and so on. When it comes to weight in certain areas of vehicles, unsprung and rotational weights are the most important. So, it bears mentioning. But as I said, I'm just mentioning it.

WTF? do the odo and speedo not work on the same gear?

Their damn site is completely in flash (who the even does that anymore??) but taken from there:

Accurate speedometer and/or odometer no matter what you change on your vehicle.

You can find the product hmah.

It only works on digital speedometers, which apparently the 7's never had. Or so I'm told.

[avriette]

buuuuuuump.

also, a local guy (on cl) says he will do it for $150, if I provide the parts. for what that's worth.