Lighter than "Air"

Libra Monkee · Post by **Libra Monkee** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 4:46 pm

About 15% lighter actually. The Lenovo X300 weighs a scant 2.5lbs. This Ultra-portable actually has 3 USB ports, integrated DVD burner, integrated RJ45, GPS, WiMax, and a replaceable battery. No word on a price or release date though.

Lynx

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:12 pm

Product Codename:
HELIUM

chicken n waffles · Post by **chicken n waffles** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:15 pm

it also comes with 73% less smug!

Post by **complacent** » Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:18 pm

and it's...ugly.

(just sayin. no matter how much sense it makes, it's still u-g-l-y)

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:14 am

I don't care, sometimes you don't mind the ugly girl who can "get down"

When you turn the lights off, they all feel the same...

Post by **complacent** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 9:23 am

Sabre wrote:I don't care, sometimes you don't mind the ugly girl who can "get down" When you turn the lights off, they all feel the same...

You're not right in the head...

(but I understand your point)

((but it's still ugly.))

chicken n waffles · Post by **chicken n waffles** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:13 am

i don't think it's ugly.

even so, since when did laptops become fashion statements?

:picard:

Libra Monkee · Post by **Libra Monkee** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 10:27 am

complacent wrote:((but it's still ugly.))

tsk tsk tsk

Spoken like a true Mac geek. Here, I found something that puts this in terms you might understand.

Post by **complacent** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:22 am

If you two consider that IBM laptop "not ugly" - than so be it. Different strokes for different folks. I happen to disagree. And that was the only point I had made. Hell, I believe I even agreed with Julian a few posts up.

Yes, I think it's ugly. I very strongly believe that the rest of the computing world could take more than a few hints as far as design is concerned. I've never seen a single PC where my first reaction is "Wow, that looks amazing!" And I can't help but ask, "Why can't technology look better? Why does it have to be this one particular shape? Why can't it be a fashion statement?"

I want my technology to push boundaries like the visions and dreams of people like Phillip K Dick, William S. Burroughs, Geiger, Pynchon, etc, etc. There isn't a single reason in the world that electronics couldn't be more aesthetically pleasing, different form factors, more fitting to one's environment and/or lifestyle, something "outside the box". I think Twain said it best when he wrote "sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

- I sure don't envision the "magic" that Twain spoke of as yet another plain, boring, beige box. Period.

And furthermore, I don't see most hardware manufacturers pushing any kind of design envelope. Yes, I really believe that my technology should be a meeting of design and performance. For the same reason I still want a

ray-gun, a radar detector brain implant and a

hoverboard. You go have fun with your 37 fan rectangle.

And Chuck, that pic is very old hat. You can do all of the things that are listed in the can't column in most macs. I've done all of them personally. On several macs. I won't even get started on that tirade... But it is comforting to see that old habits die hard, even if it was meant in jest.

I personally don't like the Windows desktop operating systems, as well as some of their server based products.

In regards to the pic:

If you can't compile an app to run in X from scratch, or type up an smb.conf file - you shouldn't talk

about an operating system you have no clue about.

Just like if you can't deal with active directory replication issues across satellite links, or ACL and DACL issues with that newest SMS push you just sent out - you shouldn't talk

about an operating system you have no clue about.

And yes, I'm very aware that I still have a metric ton to learn about many operating systems. But these are my opinions.

CN: Yes the IBM laptop has some nice parts inside. It still looks like just another laptop to me.

I'll step off my soapbox for a bit... I'm curious to hear what else is to be said.

chicken n waffles · Post by **chicken n waffles** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:59 am

nobody's saying that technology shouldn't be aesthetically pleasing, but the line between form and function has to be drawn SOMEWHERE. for the sake of comparison, while the x300 might not be as "pretty" as the macbook air, it has ethernet support (air doesn't), an internal optical drive (air? nope, LOL), more than 1 usb2.0 port (air doesn't), a solid state hard drive, weighs less AND costs less. to some people, functionality might take a front seat to looking trendy and smug at the local starbucks. people who buy the air because they need a lightweight, ultra-portable laptop and HATE m$, fine, get one. people who don't have a clue about either side of the operating system fence but want a mba because it's "in" please die in an uncontrolled oil fire.

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 12:11 pm

Sorry Colin, you know I love you but I have to say it:

I'd take either if they were given to me

Libra Monkee · Post by **Libra Monkee** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:45 pm

Whoa!

So THAT's the straw it takes to break the camel's back, eh? Interesting.

Anyhow, I never said the thing wasn't ugly. Quite frankly I think it looks horribly outdated. Like something I'd carry back in '96. I wish the designers at Lenovo, Dell, Gateway, and Sony would take a queue from Apple and actually design something that I would like to carry around in my daily life.

However, in the same token, I've always been a huge advocate of function over form. I still think Subarus are ugly but they're performance overpowers their presentation. In this case, the Lenevo (as macabre as it may be) offers seemingly more functionality without me having to carry a bunch of extra bits along for the ride.

Yes, I know that picture is "is very old hat". I put it up there for the lulz. However, it seems that they were lost. Of course I know that Macs can do just about everything PCs can do. With you singing their praises day and night coupled with the things I've found out on my own I know that Macs are customizable inside and out. To an extent.

It's that "extent" that makes me always lean on the side of PCs. For instance, CD Drive fails on a desktop (Mac or PC). Nine times out of ten, I can head out to the closest computer parts store pick up another one, undo a few screws and cables, swap them out, and be back up and running. Sure you can do this with an iMac too, but it's going to be considerably more work. Not the least of which is figuring out how to get that sucker opened. Unless, of course you either A) take it to an Apple store and let them fix it or B) mail it off to Apple and be without a computer for the week turn-around it's going to take. Same goes for upgrading any internals.

No I don't like Windows. I think it's crap and it's made of FAIL and AIDS. I've said since about 1997 that if I could load MacOS on a PC I would, but I can't. But even then MacOS would be subject to the same compatibly issues that WinOS and some Linux builds are faced with. Mr. Jobs can't have that now can he? I have no (well, very few) qualms about the MacOS (at least no more than I have with WinOS) but even the picture speaks more of hardware than it does software.

But if you can compile X apps from scratch (which BTW, I can't) I have to ask, why not use Linux where you don't have to run through the X11 emulator that, in my experience, only works when it wants to?

P.S.

Post by **complacent** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 2:48 pm

Yea, straw... of sorts.

I've seen the same tired arguments used time and time again, with slightly differing pictures for as long as I can remember macs being worth owning (ie the release of 10.1).

And yes, after the one thousandth time seeing the same stupid junk arguments about macs and price and "can't add 17 pci raid cards" and "no left click" crap, the lulz was lost on me. It is primarily the repetition that draws irk from me. My apologies.

Regarding the form vs function argument - that's cool that you happen to hold that opinion. I happen to lean a little further towards form. I just plain can't stress it enough - more needs to be done in the form department. Period. It's not catching up with the function portion of the equation. And that's one spot where we'll differ. Cool.

As far as readily available and swappable parts go, I can see your point to a degree. I've had most macs apart enough to get a "feel" for how they're put together and it makes it pretty simple to swap out parts. I guess it's just a matter of how often you've gotten your hands dirty. Hell, I used to think the Subaru engine bay was too crowded back in 04...

As far as replaceable laptop parts go? Show me a laptop from dell/hp/gateway/sony where you can find replacements in a store for more than the ram and hard drive. I bet you can't. Maybe you'll find a replacement optical drive...

As far as an iMac goes? Show me a computer parts store that carries replacement parts for that new Gateway all in one model... Or the Dell all in one model... Or the Sony all in one model... Tons of disassembly required for every single all in one device. Again, old hat argument. I feel like you're comparing (pardon the pun) apples to oranges.

Desktop tower to desktop tower? Sure! Swap parts to your hearts' content. If one can't figure out how to do that on the mac pro desktop... um... pass the beer nuts. The only problem you'll find is a lack of mac compatible hardware and peripherals. Well, ya got me there.

So given similar product comparisons, I don't think it's quite as stacked as originally presented.

Libra Monkee · Post by **Libra Monkee** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 5:56 pm

Okay I see your point.

I know most of my argument is the same regurgitated garbage that's been repeated over and over to the point that it makes you want to maul the hell out of the nearest living thing with a monkey wrench. But after being back in the Mac world (so to speak) for the past year or so I can't help share some of those same feelings.

Yes for laptop parts I'm speaking mainly of RAM and HDs. Most other parts you'll have to get from the manufacturer or a third party. Apple usually makes it fairly easy to add and replace RAM. HDs though are entirely different. I haven't done it yet on an Apple (unless you count iPods) but I've "acquired" a couple of old G4's that need HD's so they'll be my test dummies.

All-in-one's? Never liked them. For many of the same reason's I've already listed. Probably why I can't wrap my mind around a Mac. Would I rather have a nice clean desktop? Of course! But what happens when I have to switch some innards around should the need/ want arise? Everything (except RAM and HDs) is proprietary. Plus none of them are easy to get in to. If they at least fixed that nasty little niggle I might be more willing to jump on board.

I like the Mac Pro. That thing is stupid easy to replace HDs and RAM and other guts so long as they come from Apple. Haven't heard of anyone who tried to upgrade the video card or if it's even possible. Great machines though. But at home I don't have a need for that much processing power unless it's in a gaming machine. Sure in recent years Mac has been getting better. Releasing more and more games, some even on or near the same time of its Windows release. But it's not quite there yet. Sure I could dual-boot. Or I could just get a Windows box and not have to.

I want to like Macs, I really do. I don't even care if they cost more. But I like being able to upgrade a few things so I don't have to run out and get the new model every year. And well... Apple doesn't like me to do that. So iffing I did switch, Gamer Chuck and Hardware-Tinkerer Chuck would go wanting.

Will my opinion change? With time, I'd like it to. I'm tired of Windows and its crap. But, right now, Apple doesn't seem like it's enough to take it's place.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 7:34 pm

Apple has the best industrial designers in the country, maybe the world. I just wish that they could work their magic for a little less coin.

i can't help but dream of a macbook nano, built to take on the eee pc...

Post by **complacent** » Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:04 pm

Chuckles,

I appreciate your willingness to learn and listen. My sarcasm meter has been in full on b0rked today.

Apples are definitely not PCs. And they probably will never be. If it works for you - great.

The hardware tinkerer in you will have the ability to play around... A bit. Not near as much as commodity hardware though. Nowhere close. Ever...Unless Apple becomes a software company only that is.

The gamer in you? I can't argue with him either. Macs just don't have the big gaming support that the PC world has thrived on for so long. I agree that things have gotten better over the last two or so years, but I don't think we'll see an equality in titles released per operating system ever. PCs just have too big a foothold. It would almost take a revolution of sorts.

My man-crush on Theo de Raadt aside, I don't see that happening either.

Macs certainly don't work for a lot of people. That's fine by me too.

I think if you're willing to continue to learn, there's a lot to offer with a mac.

avriette · Post by **avriette** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:48 am

chicken n waffles wrote:it also comes with 73% less smug!

100% fewer mock turtlenecks!

chicken n waffles · Post by **chicken n waffles** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:21 pm

avriette wrote:
chicken n waffles wrote:it also comes with 73% less smug!
100% fewer mock turtlenecks!

97% less mochachino double latte espresso half-calfs!

(or whatever other nomenclature you yuppies use to refer to your $5 beverages from starsucks)

snaab · Post by **snaab** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:35 pm

Distant is the day when man realizes that for each there is a shoe that fits.

But the iPhone is f-ing smug. I'll give you that. I've never heard someone call it a phone. It's always "my iPhone". STFU.

BryanH · Post by **BryanH** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:23 pm

There are really only two things I don't like about the Mac Book Pro:

- The case gets Nuclear hot when it is sitting on your lap for a while. This is why the pretty metallic case sucks. It looks pretty but they need to work on the cooling.

- The power supply is a fire waiting to happen. If you don't think so please hit google. All of them in our office have had to have the power supplies replaced because they started to melt and one actually caught on fire.

I actually don't have a problem with the cost of a mac book pro. It is a beautiful machine with the best display I have ever seen.

As for the Lenovo I think it is a better ultra-portable than the Macbook just because it has an Ethernet connection. I can understand not having a CD drive...but no wired NIC??? STOOPUD!!!!

snaab · Post by **snaab** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:41 pm

BryanH wrote: I can understand not having a CD drive...but no wired NIC??? STOOPUD!!!!

The only time I used my NIC is when I'm at me mum's and I forget my wireless router, or to change settings on my router. The type of person who will buy this won't even miss those uses. Remember the death of the disk drive??

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:51 am

complacent wrote:and it's...ugly.

(just sayin. no matter how much sense it makes, it's still u-g-l-y)

I agree...standard IBM exterior design. I think they are scared to go to something new.

Phibs · Post by **Phibs** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:59 am

snaab wrote:
BryanH wrote: I can understand not having a CD drive...but no wired NIC??? STOOPUD!!!!
The only time I used my NIC is when I'm at me mum's and I forget my wireless router, or to change settings on my router. The type of person who will buy this won't even miss those uses. Remember the death of the disk drive??

I use mine when transferring large files as 802.11g or even N aren't quite there yet compared to gig-e. You are probably right though, the type of person who will buy this won't care.

BryanH · Post by **BryanH** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:04 am

Believe it or not there are ALOT of macs appearing in the corporate world and I know the BD weenies would LOVE LOVE LOVE to get there hands on something just like this. Having to haul around a big ass laptop and all the rest of the shit they have to carry sucks. Anything to lighten the load is welcome.

It needs a wired NIC.

Post by **Sabre** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:51 am

But just think Bryan, not having a wired NIC prevents them from hooking into our network!