where should i go to get tuned and tunning basics

boomee · Post by **boomee** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:04 pm

i am thinking about getting my vehicle (ECU) tuned i have an 04 forester xt manula trans where are shops where i could get this done mind you i dont want anything too extreme just some more pep in the car i am still running stock internals with only a couple of suspesion mods ( that i stil need to find a place that can instal them ) also what are the basics about tunning the ecu and pros and cons thanks for your help everyone

Cereb Daithi · Post by **Cereb Daithi** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:10 pm

I'm sure one of the other guys here will probably say PTuning at one point or another!

WRXWagon2112 · Post by **WRXWagon2112** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:03 pm

Where are you located? That can help us determine what shops might be close to you. Also, do you have an aftermarket ECU - like a Cobb AP, UTEC, Hydra, etc.?

--Alan

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:39 pm

until you do a down pipe I personally wouldn't spend the money on EM just yet. for someone new to "tuning" I always suggest an Access Port. they can be found used and will grow with you. also, Stage I doesn't require any other mods so you can start enjoying it right away.

come out to a meet sometime (not just ours, but other local meets too) and just talk to people about their setup. car people are always ready to talk about their setup.

there are lots of options out there. do your homework and go with what best fits your wants, needs and budget.

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:47 am

Tuning basic basics.

Major parameters that you can change while tuning:
Manifold pressure
Fuel/Injector Duty Cycle (IDC)
Timing/ignition advance

Increase boost + lean out fuel + advance ignition timing = more power + hotter exhaust gasses.

I would get a boost gauge and EGT gauge, you know, so you have less of a chance of blowing things up.

You can either choose a shop that is close to you and see what they like to use for tuning and buy it, or go it yourself and get stage maps. If you think you are going to continue adding parts and power, look at getting something that is scaleable.

Oh, and I think your period key is broken...

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 12:41 pm

Think long and hard about what you want before you get too deep into modifying your car. Here are some questions you should ask:

1. How much power do you really want? (If you don't know, you may want to ask around and get some rides with folks who have different levels of power)

2. How much are you willing to pay? (This one is very closely related to question #1. Speed costs money)

2. Are you willing to do some research and do the work yourself? (This is related to question #2. You can do much of it yourself and save huge amounts of cash. We are also willing to help with our knowledge and experience)

4. Is your head spinning yet? (If yes, then perhaps you should do more research, talk to those who have gone before you and get a better feel for what your options are)

There are a number of shops that can tune your ECU (either with open source software or with a known commodity (UTEC, Cobb Accessport, ECUTek, Hydra, etc.), but the questions above will still need to be answered.

Post by **Sabre** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:28 pm

As pointed out above, it REALLY depends on your power goals. We have everything from reflashed stock cars to full on rebuilt ones. Here are some starters:

This is a typical route for power mods:
1.) Uppipe (WRX's and I *think* XT's have a cat in the UP) - Decreases spool time (lag) - 4 hour job
2.) Downpipe or full turboback - Increases power - 1-1.5 hour job
3.) Engine Management - 30 minutes with staged maps

After that, you start getting into more serious mods like injectors and turbo's. Check out this post about the differences between the types of EM. You might want to also check this thread on the differences between a UTEC and the AccessPort.

If you are looking for suspension or braking mods, we can help you out there too

boomee · Post by **boomee** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 7:59 pm

WRXWagon2112 wrote:Where are you located? That can help us determine what shops might be close to you. Also, do you have an aftermarket ECU - like a Cobb AP, UTEC, Hydra, etc.?

--Alan

I live in manassas, VA

boomee · Post by **boomee** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:11 pm

drwrx wrote:Think long and hard about what you want before you get too deep into modifying your car. Here are some questions you should ask:

1. How much power do you really want? (If you don't know, you may want to ask around and get some rides with folks who have different levels of power)

2. How much are you willing to pay? (This one is very closely related to question #1. Speed costs money)

2. Are you willing to do some research and do the work yourself? (This is related to question #2. You can do much of it yourself and save huge amounts of cash. We are also willing to help with our knowledge and experience)

4. Is your head spinning yet? (If yes, then perhaps you should do more research, talk to those who have gone before you and get a better feel for what your options are)

There are a number of shops that can tune your ECU (either with open source software or with a known commodity (UTEC, Cobb Accessport, ECUTek, Hydra, etc.), but the questions above will still need to be answered.

hmm you all have given me alot to think about ( i been thinking about it for awile already) i am not trying to do to much because of 1. bills new dog and getting a house and 2. daily driver so my income is limited at this point
I would say my goal is anywhere form 25 -40 horses more than i have right now not enough to make me dangerous but enough to shock people suggestions form this point ?

boomee · Post by **boomee** » Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:56 pm

i also am kinda want to set it and forget it for a while i cant be fine tuning it all the time but if i get a good tune the first time i wont need to mess with it i suppose i was told by someone that works at P tuning ( i went there this week ) that Ecu teck is the way to go because it dosent mess with the safe gaurds in your ecu and people with cobb somtimes have issue such as cant start stall out and others i took that with a grain of salt but i am trying to figure where he bases his information from since they dont tune Cobb he told me only so mayny shops get a licesnse to tune Cobb AP hmmmmm just food for though please tell me you thougts on what i said about my horspower goals and what i have just presented

boomee · Post by **boomee** » Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:08 pm

also what kinda hp / tourqe numbers would i hope to receive with an AP stage one onr a tune from ECUteck on a stock 04 fxt manual trans

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:42 am

for the numbers you are looking for there wont be much of a difference between the different engine management choices that you have listed the first step is to do the machanical things listed above those will probably get you your 25 hp throw in a manual boost control and a boost gauge and that is you you can do it on the cheap not very safe if you keep pushing it unless you can know when to stop you can go the other route and just do tuning to get your numbers but that would sort of be a waste of time and money because if you do the intake exhaust stuff later you will have to tune for it all over again because you are constrined by money do the work you can yourself and save some cahse lots of parts can be had used but it is a good idea to use new gaskets so you don't get leaks if it is too hard for you just give me your cash and i can do it all for you then you wont have to worry about stuff & things but you can do your homework and figure the route that you want for the money you have just don't forget that it will be hard to stop the modding process so if you can have a plan and stick to is you can save money especially if you do a lot of the work yourself it really isnt all that hard you just have to have a plan for what you are going to do and stick with it dont worry about what the guy down the street did or the dude at a shop that punked on a product because his friends car blew up most likely he was a dumbass and needed no help from anybody else to screw his car the posts that have been put up so far are good places to start thinking so go back and figure out what you want if you dont know then we cant answer questions for you because the questions that you are asking dont really apply at this stage use some punctuation and paragraphs because I can't read any more of your posts

chicken n waffles · Post by **chicken n waffles** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:29 am

boomee · Post by **boomee** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 8:47 am

wes very funny as i had stated before i wont be doing much modding on the xt due to it being my daily driver and also there are toehr things going on l that are more important than modding i also would like to point out to zaxrex that you also dont use punctuation either if you dont wanna read a post then dont read it. I appreciate your point of veiw i guess i just want to get the power and still be able to pass emisions ( would i still be able to taking the cat out I beleive a tune will work for me so i dont have to worry about it anymore thank you for your time

chicken n waffles · Post by **chicken n waffles** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:45 am

boomee wrote:i also would like to point out to zaxrex that you also dont use punctuation either if you dont wanna read a post then dont read it.

wow dude. he was lightheartedly mocking you.

the internet...

Post by **complacent** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:50 am

If you want to pass emissions and have a little more power (25-40hp) then keep it simple and purchase an AccessPort. You will not have to worry about anything, it will be as reliable as stock.

All of the earlier suggestions for a turboback exhaust are spot on as well. The combination of a turboback exhaust and an AccessPort are very noticable, yet still emissions friendly.

As far as others commenting on your complete lack of punctuation - they're spot on as well. Without any punctuation at all, your posts are very difficult to read.

We have no problems helping a fellow Suby owner decide what mods to buy, or in which order to purchase them.

Please, please and punctuation to your posts - It took me almost five minutes to read through your last one. Help us, help you.

boomee · Post by **boomee** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 10:04 am

thank you very much I appreciate your answer. That was what i was looking for. Sorry about my lack of punctuation. I will try to get better at it also thanks Sirwilliam for the pm.

WRXWagon2112 · Post by **WRXWagon2112** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 12:42 pm

I think Complacent sums it up very well. The combination of a turbo-back exhaust and a Cobb AP will give you noticeable power, be easy on your wallet (relatively) and be emissions-friendly (so you can continue to use it as a daily driver).

A used exhaust system can be had for little money. I wish I could direct you to our classified section but that's still growing so you may have better luck over at NASIOC (Mid-Atlantic section).

A used Cobb AP can be had for little money (but be careful to get one that's been "divorced" from the previous owner's ECU).

Again, both of these will be easy on your budget AND be emissions-friendly so your daily driver will not be adversly affected (effected? spelling?).

As for the posts - well, yeah, they're a little tough to read. You've got to expect that with this crowd - they're moved beyond the kiddie l33t speak and are starting to get a little like crotched-y old men (myself included). Don't let it piss you off.

So please - stick around, come to a meet or two (or three or four...) and post up with questions. We can give advice and point you toward possible answers but ultimately you'll need to do the research. Kinda like that old saying "we can lead you to water but you have to drink". Okay, so I bastardized that phrase quite a bit but you get the idea.

Oh, and welcome to the club! The XT is an amazing sleeper car: very utilitarian and yet fast as hell. Come out to a meet and I'm sure you'll pick up a lot of ideas.

--Alan

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 2:24 pm

I will now post-up drwrx's perscription for cheap power:
Used Cobb Accessport: $700 new, $400-$450 used
Or download one of the open source ECU re-flash programs (Enginuity, ECU Flash) and a tactrix cable for $100. (and learn how to tune)
Stromung or bosal downpipe: $189-$230 new, $150 used (keep stock mid cat-pipe)
Up-pipe: $70-$250 New $50-$120 Used (depending on kind)
Cat-back exhaust: $400-$900 New, $250-$400 used (depending on kind). You could also just keep your eyes open for a 2.5" high-flow axle-back section and save even more.
All this should put your Forester XT at right around 240 whp and 260 ftlbs.

Add in a bigger turbo (vf39, vf30, vf34, vf22, TD05-16G) and you'll be near 300 whp and 320 ftlbs.

boomee · Post by **boomee** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:45 pm

WRXWagon2112 wrote:I think Complacent sums it up very well. The combination of a turbo-back exhaust and a Cobb AP will give you noticeable power, be easy on your wallet (relatively) and be emissions-friendly (so you can continue to use it as a daily driver).

A used exhaust system can be had for little money. I wish I could direct you to our classified section but that's still growing so you may have better luck over at NASIOC (Mid-Atlantic section).

A used Cobb AP can be had for little money (but be careful to get one that's been "divorced" from the previous owner's ECU).

Again, both of these will be easy on your budget AND be emissions-friendly so your daily driver will not be adversly affected (effected? spelling?).

As for the posts - well, yeah, they're a little tough to read. You've got to expect that with this crowd - they're moved beyond the kiddie l33t speak and are starting to get a little like crotched-y old men (myself included). Don't let it piss you off.

So please - stick around, come to a meet or two (or three or four...) and post up with questions. We can give advice and point you toward possible answers but ultimately you'll need to do the research. Kinda like that old saying "we can lead you to water but you have to drink". Okay, so I bastardized that phrase quite a bit but you get the idea.

Oh, and welcome to the club! The XT is an amazing sleeper car: very utilitarian and yet fast as hell. Come out to a meet and I'm sure you'll pick up a lot of ideas.

--Alan

thanks wrxwagon and DR wrx for the info no hard feelings like i said i will try and make sure i am a little better with my posts. I am gonna try and come to some meets my scheduale is crazy seein as i just graduated the DC police academy but i will keep checking dates and see if i can make it to a meet

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 11:09 pm

Hey man, I was being old and persnickety. I get punchy like that late at night.

I did you more harm than good, and that is usualy not my style.

Sorry.

P.S.
Offer still stands if you want help (free of charge, well except for a beer and a slice of pizza or something) swaping in new bits on your car.

Will(sirwilliam) has the most miles down the road in your area, pick his brain to get some detailed specifics on potential and problems.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:14 am

zaxrex wrote:Hey man, I was being old and persnickety. I get punchy like that late at night.

I did you more harm than good, and that is usualy not my style.

Sorry.

P.S.
Offer still stands if you want help (free of charge, well except for a beer and a slice of pizza or something) swaping in new bits on your car.

Will(sirwilliam) has the most miles down the road in your area, pick his brain to get some detailed specifics on potential and problems.

~73k to be exact.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:47 am

zaxrex wrote:and that is usualy not my style.

Z has style?!?

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:52 am

Mr Kleen wrote:
zaxrex wrote:and that is usualy not my style.
Z has style?!?

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Mar 27, 2007 11:10 am

sirwilliam wrote:
Mr Kleen wrote:
zaxrex wrote:and that is usualy not my style.
Z has style?!?