clutch / alignment / tires?

[avriette]

I wouldn't normally make much of it, but I'm noticing three things that seem to be related.

First, for the last couple days, we've been smelling clutch. Not upon shifting, but rather while underway. At first, I thought it was somebody's ATF, or maybe even our brakes, but since it's persisted for the last few days, it seems to be us.

Second, both Sandy and I have lost traction in the last 24 hours, on the same kind of turn, a 90° left-hander, and at the same speed, 35-45mph. For her, she was in 4th, and had understeer, I was in 3rd, and had oversteer. But, given the same speed, and the same direction, I think I can safely assume the difference between over/under steer in this case is the difference in torque between 3rd and 4th (consider the RPM range difference given a similar speed). I had to correct for oversteer, she had to correct for understeer. This is, of course, an AWD car, so it's weird that we would have different reactions.

Third, the car seems to be a little mis-aligned, tending a little bit to the left. This seems to me to indicate that on a turn a little too "hot," the car might not behave as expected. I've certainly had the car in hard left-handers above 110mph, and not noticed anything odd until recently. We're at 9500 miles, and just had our tires rotated at 7500 miles (we were looking at houses, so put a ton of miles on the car in the last few weeks, without really "driving" the car). Is it possible that during the rotation we encountered some alignment mis-geometry?

Since we've both lost traction in the last 24 hours (and not before), is it possible that it's road conditions? They're mostly dry in Arlington, and the roads were the same (mostly dry asphalt). The only thing I can think of is that it's been cold-ish lately, with the last day or so being 70°F+. The tires are of course the stock tires.

I kind of think it might be a good idea to get the rear cambered out a little, and maybe to get some "real" summer tires (yes, I know, everyone has wood for the stock tires, but I'm thinking something along the lines of KV710 or YA032R). It kind of worries me. Since we're at 9500, and oil is due to be changed on Tues/Weds, I am considering just asking Don Beyer to have a look at the alignment, and if everything is in order, to dial in maybe 1-2° of negative camber out back. I'm not sure what to make of the clutch smell. Is it possible that a wonky alignment could lead to clutch mis-engagement? I haven't heard of such a thing, but then this is the first three-LSD vehicle I've owned. Is it possible that one of the differentials is unhappy? Don Beyer made a huge stink about getting the car in to have the tires rotated at 7500mi, saying if we didn't that we might throw a transmission.

Ideas?

[Sabre]

First, for the last couple days, we've been smelling clutch. Not upon shifting, but rather while underway. At first, I thought it was somebody's ATF, or maybe even our brakes, but since it's persisted for the last few days, it seems to be us.

Strange, not sure what to tell you on this one!

Second, both Sandy and I have lost traction in the last 24 hours, on the same kind of turn, a 90° left-hander, and at the same speed, 35-45mph. For her, she was in 4th, and had understeer, I was in 3rd, and had oversteer. ...

The differences in torque, tire temp and road conditions (asphalt temp etc.) could definitely make the turn seem different and cause different reactions in the car.

Third, the car seems to be a little mis-aligned, tending a little bit to the left. This seems to me to indicate that on a turn a little too "hot," the car might not behave as expected....

Since we've both lost traction in the last 24 hours (and not before), is it possible that it's road conditions? ...

This it is possible they threw it out of alignment with the rotation (banging the wheels on and such), they would have to try REALLY hard to do this.

I kind of think it might be a good idea to get the rear cambered out a little, and maybe to get some "real" summer tires (yes, I know, everyone has wood for the stock tires, but I'm thinking something along the lines of KV710 or YA032R). It kind of worries me. Since we're at 9500, and oil is due to be changed on Tues/Weds, I am considering just asking Don Beyer to have a look at the alignment, and if everything is in order, to dial in maybe 1-2° of negative camber out back. I'm not sure what to make of the clutch smell. Is it possible that a wonky alignment could lead to clutch mis-engagement? I haven't heard of such a thing, but then this is the first three-LSD vehicle I've owned. Is it possible that one of the differentials is unhappy? Don Beyer made a huge stink about getting the car in to have the tires rotated at 7500mi, saying if we didn't that we might throw a transmission.

Ideas?

Take a look at the Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07's. They are one HELL of a tire. They are definitely not cheap (~190/ea), but I think they are worth it BTW, I always found the stock tires to be a little to greasy for me, esp. when they warmed up.

BTW, the reason that they were so insistent is because differences in tire diameter can lead to diff wear and tare. I wouldn't think that after so few miles that would be an issue for you all though. The only times I have heard of that being an issue is when you have the spare tire on and drive it over 100miles.

As far as adding 1-2° of negative camber, you'll need to get camber bolts to get to 2°. Definitely check out PTuning (one of our sponsors) if you want to get anything but the "stock" alignment done.

[avriette]

First, for the last couple days, we've been smelling clutch. Not upon shifting, but rather while underway. At first, I thought it was somebody's ATF, or maybe even our brakes, but since it's persisted for the last few days, it seems to be us.

Strange, not sure what to tell you on this one!

Going to have the dealer look into this. I figure something could be misaligned, clutch-wise.

Third, the car seems to be a little mis-aligned, tending a little bit to the left. This seems to me to indicate that on a turn a little too "hot," the car might not behave as expected....

Since we've both lost traction in the last 24 hours (and not before), is it possible that it's road conditions? ...

This it is possible they threw it out of alignment with the rotation (banging the wheels on and such), they would have to try REALLY hard to do this.

Yeah. I've done a lot of alignments and tire rotations myself. Seems kind of hard to fsck up the alignment just swapping tires around. Something to have the dealer look at, as well.

Take a look at the Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07's. They are one HELL of a tire. They are definitely not cheap (~190/ea), but I think they are worth it BTW, I always found the stock tires to be a little to greasy for me, esp. when they warmed up.

I'll have a look. I hear there's a guy selling some rims. Like brakes, when I started putting serious power into the Z, I had no idea how important tires were. I had some crummy BFG's on the car when I went through the first turbo upgrade. Went from 220 to 320hp in a weekend. All of a sudden, car was entirely uncontrollable. I'm sure it's some common saying, but the IZCC gave me the explanation "you can't skimp on tires, man. they're your only connection with the earth!"

So, I'd rather drop $800 on tires than continue to lose traction when going around turns.

As far as adding 1-2° of negative camber, you'll need to get camber bolts to get to 2°. Definitely check out PTuning (one of our sponsors) if you want to get anything but the "stock" alignment done.

This is good to know. Any idea whether Subaru will be pissed if we get that much camber in the car? Dodge was pretty unhappy when I brought the ACR in with -2 out back, told me I could void the warranty (on a FWD car!).

[Sabre]

This is good to know. Any idea whether Subaru will be pissed if we get that much camber in the car? Dodge was pretty unhappy when I brought the ACR in with -2 out back, told me I could void the warranty (on a FWD car!).

I don't know why they would be upset with you on that one. It's not like they are going to warranty the tires, which is what that will wear out quickly.

BTW, FYI: STI's come with one set of camber bolts up front and none in the rear. You can however add another set up front and some in the rear to get as much camber as you want. If you really want to go crazy, camber plates and bolts will let you go REALLY hard core... but I don't think you want to drive a car on the street setup like that

[spazegun2213]

1) how much tread do you have left on the 70's (I'm looking for a set for cheap)
2) if you put v710's or another slick tire on your car, you will die. They are NOT street tires!!! R-comps are also a waste on the road as you'll eat more tread on your commute than you'll ever use in a corner. they are also expensive to boot.
3) Go to ptuning for an alignment, I'm 11ty billion % satisfied with mine and they went the extra miles to make sure the car was perfect (and let me know i could still add more camber to the front).

My current alignment is -2* F and -1* rear. Seems to be almost perfect for my driving style. The car rotates and turns on a dime, thus i cant wait to get her on the track with the hoosiers i just picked up

you will need ingals, whiteline, etc, 14mm style bolts in the front AND rear to get the settings i have. Talk to Hotsam as he generally has great deals on these. Once you have the bolts take the car over to pTuning and let them do the rest

your alignment will GREATLY improve tire ware, grip, etc so i would even recommend holding of on tires and until after you get an alignment.