Big decisions loom for next Subaru WRX this week

[Mr Kleen]

Big decisions loom for next Subaru WRX this week

Subaru is currently plotting the future of the next-generation WRX STI. Company delegates from various world markets are currently headed to Japan to decide whether the rally bruiser will continue to be a hardcore racer straight from the factory or if it will head in a new, somewhat posher direction. According to GoAuto.com (and previous reports), the new STI will be significantly different from the base Impreza and WRX, and that difference may translate into a more upscale performance model. Think something along the lines of a BMW M or a Mercedes-Benz AMG machine.

Regardless of which direction the model takes, odds are we can expect to see a turbocharged version of the new 2.0-liter dual-overhead cam boxer four-cylinder currently found in the Forester. Nick Senior, Subaru Australia Managing Director, has been quoted as saying the engine is compatible with forced inductions, countering earlier reports.

While Senior says he hopes the STI will continue to be a rally thoroughbred, his vote only counts for so much. Australia is the fourth-largest Subaru market behind the U.S., Japan and China.

[PGT]

umm, the GRB is NOT a 'hardcore' core by any stretch of the imagination. It's actually quite the comfortable long distance car, with "normal" tires on it that is.

[captainslow]

I like the comment suggesting that the sti come with an auto tranny and a V8 to compete with the dodge charger.

If Subaru wants to appeal to older, performance-oriented buyers, why not bump up power for the sti overall and add another trim to the sti line - like the mr touring - charge more but make the car much plusher than the limited (subtle spoiler, leather recaros, less plasticy interior, good stereo, no rattles). Give it an optional dct. Make it more competitive to the s4. But leave the base and limited for those of us who don't want to drop 50gs on a Subie. I personally like the sti as it is now, but instead of radically changing it to compete with M and AMGs, find some way to continue to appeal to the sti fanbase. Don't change it too much or make it unaffordable.

Unless I'm out of the loop, I believe the brz is rwd only and only a 2 seater. I think many would continue to opt for awd and functionality even if the brz gets a turbo.

[chicken n waffles]

subaru might as well refine the sti, as they're starting to price it out of the range of most "young" buyers in their target market anyway.

don't half ass it, subaru. go whole hog. while you're at it, ditch the chintzy interior.

[PGT]

euro Legacy Spec B had the H6, Bilsteins and 6sp from the STI. That was a "grown up" type sedan but never sold here. Give it 300+ hp and you'll have a contender against the "near luxury" sport sedan market. The STI could become the latest incarnation of that car or it could be even more. The current GRB is built on a modified version of the BL/BP chassis (05-09 Legacy) already.

[avriette]

euro Legacy Spec B had the H6, Bilsteins and 6sp from the STI. That was a "grown up" type sedan but never sold here. Give it 300+ hp and you'll have a contender against the "near luxury" sport sedan market.

Ahem. Give it 400hp, optional leather and memory/electric seats and I'll buy one. But do try to keep it under, you know, 3600lbs. Cars just aren't getting slower. It would bother me a lot if the kid in the Hyundai (don't get me wrong, I love me a Genesis) had as much torque as my car.

[PGT]

well, yeah. forced induction, direct injection of the 3.6L in that car would be phenomenal. You want get that power out of the N/A version of it. Subaru moved from 3.0 to 3.6L and didn't really change the power much; they tuned it for torque and efficiency meaning same power but now on 87 octane vs. 93. That tells me there's a LOT of headroom, making 300hp no issue. Look at any other Japanese six cylinder and that's standard issue these days. Hell, a RAV4 or Camry even.....a "special" version of a Subaru should be BEYOND that point.

[drwrx]

The trouble is that any significant move from the "norm" runs the risk of low / lost sales. I'm sure there are a number of Subaru execs running the cost / benefit analysis of any number of options and trying to figure which will have the largest target market.

Think of the FT86. How many years did that take to develope? And that was a joint venture. Would Subaru have produced that vehicle on it's own without Toyota defering the costs? Not a chance. Will it be a success? We can only hope. If it is, perhaps we will see the STi take a more radical or specialized route. Or will Subaru fear that with the BRZ already in a specialized market, a second offering could possibly threaten the sales of the other if they are seen as appealing to the same demographic?

The odd thing for me is that I'm not certain what I think would be best, or even what I would prefer. Not too long ago I wouldn't have thought I'd want an automatic (type) of transmission. Then I drove the EVO X, GT-R and M3 with their paddle shifting set-ups (Julian and Suzie's S4 is no slouch either). I know now that my next "new" car purchase will have a similar set-up. I hope Subaru can produce a good one. That would seal the deal for me.

[avriette]

Darrin, think of the SUV model of sales. Take a chassis that is already proven and selling well (the Suburban). Then add a bunch of silly leather trim, some fancy captain's chairs, nav, and giant plasticky bumpers (the Denali or whatever its equiv is). Then, add $20k to the MSRP. Add another 10 over that for the Escalade.

For Subaru, take something like the Legacy or Impreza chassis. It's already a winner. Add the goodies that I am now old enough to want in the car, and because I'm paying more for it, eh, make it faaaaastar. And I don't mind paying another $20-30k for it. Their costs are actually not that much greater than developing the original chassis. The rest of the stuff is off-the-shelf.

[drwrx]

Your model works fine, and it certainly has for the Suburban platform. Many would argue that it was that platform which kept GM from the crusher for over a decade.

But what we are speaking of now is for Subaru to enter into a market segment that it has not previously had a presence.
My best example of the risk would be the VW Phaeton. There was nothing "ground breaking" or "game changing" about it all. The parts were already available, and anyone who drove it found it to be an excellent car. Yet it was a colossal sales disaster. Sure, there is the argument that they were just competing against themselves (Audi), but the evidence for success was pretty strong. The Passat was selling exceedingly well, and the loaded 4-Motion V6 & W8 versions were in high demand. Everything looked right for a Phaeton launch. And yet . . .

[Mr Kleen]

A nicer STi interior might just win me back. A BRZ turbo would win me back.

<--- really misses the boxer rumble sometimes.

[captainslow]

I took a look at the source Gabe's link cites bc other sites were reporting slightly differing versions of the story (using the same cite). I thought the news was interesting so I pasted the source below.

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor. ... B10024DCD4

Direction of next rally-bred Subaru to be decided in Japan as Senior heads to talks

27 February 2012 By HAITHAM RAZAGUI SUBARU Australia managing director Nick Senior will travel to Japan this week to take part in talks over what the next incarnation of the brand’s rally-bred, high-performance WRX and STI products will be like when they arrive in around 18 months’ time.

Mr Senior will join delegates from some of Subaru’s international markets to discuss whether the next-generation WRX and STI will continue with the formula of “a quite hard edge in terms of style, design and performance” or become a more “European sports sedan in the mould of M series or AMG”.

The next WRX and STI will be distanced from the standard Impreza sedan and hatch that were launched in Australia last week, as was initiated when Impreza branding was dropped from the updated wide-body WRX in September 2010 and with the new separately-branded XV crossover that arrived here in January.

Although Subaru has considered further distancing the WRX and STI from the Impreza sedan and hatch by developing a variant that would have a similar relationship with the Impreza as the Volkswagen Scirocco does with the Golf, Mr Senior said he and the factory were not keen on losing the versatility of the sedan and hatch body styles.

“The factory has given the indication that they do not want to lose the edge that the WRX and STI have been associated with and established over the last 18 years,” he said.

“That (two-door scenario) may well be possible, although you do lose potential volume … competitors like the Nissan 200SX come and go because they don’t have that versatility in terms of the four and five-door layout.”

On the subject of Australia’s influence in Subaru product planning meetings, Mr Senior said: “We can put in our 10 cents’ worth … but we have got to recognise our station in life and we are the fourth-biggest market behind the US, Japan and China.”

Asked of his preferred outcome, Mr Senior said he would like Subaru to continue with the WRX/STI formula it has had so much success with over the years and said a final decision would be made “in the very near future”.

“I do love that we do have the four and five-door variants and I would like that to continue.

“I think the other thing is they are iconic names and have established a reputation, and to keep that edge is very important, to have that edginess about them.

“We have sold more than 25,000 WRX (in Australia) since 1994 so it is an extremely popular and much-loved vehicle.”

In contradiction to previous reports, Mr Senior said the FB-series ‘boxer’ engine, which debuted in last year’s updated Forester SUV and now exclusively powers the new Impreza line-up in 2.0-litre form, is suitable for turbocharging, meaning its efficiency gains will not be lost if applied to a high-performance vehicle.

He also said that, because the company has developed a version of its Lineartronic continuously variable transmission (CVT) to cope with the torque of diesel engines – meaning automatic diesel Subarus are on the horizon – the next step is to apply the transmission to high-performance vehicles.

The current WRX and STI, which will continue to be sold alongside the new fourth-generation Impreza until their replacements arrive, continue to be counted among the Impreza’s sales by VFACTS.

Mr Senior said combining WRX and STI sales figures with those of the new Impreza in VFACTS will slightly muddy the waters as a large proportion (roughly 170 units of the Impreza’s average 966 monthly sales) will be attributed to an older model.

He said once the new WRX and STI hit the market they are likely to join the rear-drive BRZ coupe in the sportscar VFACTS category and listed under a separate model name for the first time.

After GoAuto expressed disappointment to Mr Senior over the new Impreza’s slower than expected acceleration (10.5 seconds for the manual and 11.5 seconds for the CVT automatic) at the launch in South Australia last week, he said the 2.0-litre models were more about efficiency than performance.

However, Mr Senior said he hoped a higher-performance model would form a spiritual successor to the sporty Impreza RS that was sold in Australia between 2003 and 2005, to form a flagship variant that sits below the WRX.

Not to be confused with the RS variant that shared the same 2.0-litre naturally aspirated engine as the rest of the Impreza line-up, Mr Senior suggested a reborn RS could use a derivative of the Forester’s 126kW/235Nm 2.5-litre petrol engine.

Asked whether Subaru’s diesel boxer engine is likely to make it under the bonnet of the Impreza, Mr Senior said it is not likely at this stage, especially given the fuel economy gains of up to 22 per cent made with the petrol version of the new model.

“Diesel is an SUV thing”, he said, citing the increased cost of diesel engines compared with petrol.

However, he did not completely rule it out, saying that if a suitable engine became available it would be considered for Australia.

It is a similar position to that taken by Honda in Australia, which recently announced it will be introducing a diesel variant of the British-built Civic hatch in 2013.

This is likely to be related to the existence of a powerful and highly efficient new 1.6-litre unit that will debut at Geneva next month and is set to replace the well-regarded 2.2-litre diesel used on several European-market Hondas.

Mr Senior said he expected Impreza volume to remain steady despite the arrival of the fourth-generation model.

This is largely due to pressure on the factory, which is operating at 100 per cent capacity and working hard to satisfy exceptionally high demand for the new XV, more than 650 of which were sold locally in the two weeks immediately following its launch last month.

[avriette]

Your model works fine, and it certainly has for the Suburban platform. Many would argue that it was that platform which kept GM from the crusher for over a decade.

But what we are speaking of now is for Subaru to enter into a market segment that it has not previously had a presence.
My best example of the risk would be the VW Phaeton. There was nothing "ground breaking" or "game changing" about it all. The parts were already available, and anyone who drove it found it to be an excellent car. Yet it was a colossal sales disaster. Sure, there is the argument that they were just competing against themselves (Audi), but the evidence for success was pretty strong. The Passat was selling exceedingly well, and the loaded 4-Motion V6 & W8 versions were in high demand. Everything looked right for a Phaeton launch. And yet . . .

...and yet, Nissan is now selling the GTR, quite well, in the US. I think the barrier is lower than you suspect. And VW has never been known for building performance cars. Subaru on the other hand, has. So build a fast, cush car. Sell it.

[PGT]

it's all about street cred; the GT-R has it and it commands a healthy price. Frankly, if I had to choose between a new 911 and a GT-R....it would be a tough call. The fact that Nissan built it is commendable...they've nailed it even though there are changes we'd all like to see (more involvement, less weight, etc)

[scheherazade]

Plus the resale.
They keep getting older with more miles, and the price just hangs out where it's at.
They were a better deal earlier, when 'used' cost [practically] the same as today, but mileages were lower.

-scheherazade

[drwrx]

...and yet, Nissan is now selling the GTR, quite well, in the US. I think the barrier is lower than you suspect. And VW has never been known for building performance cars. Subaru on the other hand, has. So build a fast, cush car. Sell it.

The GT-R is a bit of a non-sequitur, as it is not new ground for Nissan. The Skyline had been in existence for years (just not in the states) and it's notoriety and prestige was enormous. The GT-R is simply an evolution of that line. Arguably it is a big jump up the ladder, but Nissan already had market presence in that segment. Again, just not in the states. Could the GT-R have been a failure in the US? Sure, but demand outside the US was likely a sure thing regardless, so the risk was reduced significantly. I maintain, that there is no such guaranteed demand for an upscale (read pricey) WRX/STi and that low sales could jeopardize the brand.

[Mr Kleen]

Frankly, if I had to choose between a new 911 and a GT-R....it would be a tough call.

Having ridden in both it would be an easy call for me. The GT-R is fast and cheap for the level of performance but the interior is where they saved all that money.