"hi-performance all-season" or "performance winter/snow"???

[PGT]

Help me choose some winter rubber for my RWD sled. I'm buying a new set of wheels that are 18x8/18x9 staggered. Stock size is 235/40/18 and 255/35/18 (PZero Nero A/S and terrible). Based upon outside diamater of the rear (and the 275/30/19 I'm running now), it looks like 265/35/18 can work as well.

Knowing how our winters are (hit or miss on actual white stuff) and the fact that I can work from home or swap cars for my wife's FX35AWD if it gets really bad, what would you choose? I don't want to give up much handling/traction as its a problem now on the stock Pirelli all-season.

235/255 combo:
Continental ExtremeContact DWS (Ultra High Performance All-Season)
Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season (Ultra High Performance All-Season)
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus (Ultra High Performance All-Season)
Yokohama ADVAN S.4. (Ultra High Performance All-Season)
Pirelli Winter 240 Sottozero Serie II
Pirelli Winter 240 Sottozero

235/265 combo:
Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position (Ultra High Performance All-Season)
Continental ExtremeContact DWS (Ultra High Performance All-Season)
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S Plus (Ultra High Performance All-Season)
Yokohama ADVAN S.4. (Ultra High Performance All-Season)
Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D (Performance Winter/Snow)

[Sabre]

235/255 combo:
Continental ExtremeContact DWS (Ultra High Performance All-Season)

Sadly, skinnier tires are better for any white stuff that we do get, so I'd go with the 235/255 combo. I had Coni Extreme Contacts on my car for a couple of winters and thought they did very well.

That being said, I'll bow to whatever the good doctor (drwrx) has to say as he is much more informed on tire choices.

[WRXWagon2112]

IMHO, unless you plan on taking your E to the slopes for some skiing/boarding, just go with the high-performance all-seasons. No need to go overboard in this area.

--Alan

[scheherazade]

From what I saw in the tire rack videos :

AS -> summer, in summer, makes a difference, but rather small in the big picture (significant to performance freaks)

AS -> winter, in winter, makes a large difference. On the order of going very wide in a turn vs staying in lane.

Not sure what you'd wanna take from that.

-scheherazade

[PGT]

235/255 combo:
Continental ExtremeContact DWS (Ultra High Performance All-Season)

Sadly, skinnier tires are better for any white stuff that we do get, so I'd go with the 235/255 combo.

I know but the diff between those two sizes won't make/break it as much as the proper tire will.

thing is...we don't get that much snow here and if its bad enough to get even a proper 4x4 stuck, there's no point trying (like what tends to happen every seven years here....1996, 2003 and 2010). If that schedule holds true, we're in for an easy year.

I had Nokian WR's on my wife's MINI in a 215/45/17 fitment. They're a severe winter duty rated all-season (they have the snowflake symbol). In the white stuff, they stopped and turned ok but couldn't keep up with 170hp, even on light throttle. And, they sucked on dry pavement.

I've never had true performance winter rubber...just wondering if its worth the compromise (b/c every tire IS a compromise).

[scheherazade]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/vid ... p?ttid=103

Granted, you'll drive on snow maybe a dozen days total.

-scheherazade

[Mr Kleen]

if you can spring for a 'Benz why not spring for dedicated winter wheels/tires? cheap [additional] insurance from balling her up in a winter storm.

[PGT]

Umm, what do you think this thread's about?

[Mr Kleen]

Umm, what do you think this thread's about?

sounded like it was get winter tires or not. I voted get.

[PGT]

Umm, what do you think this thread's about?

sounded like it was get winter tires or not. I voted get.

right, as opposed to my summer set. you told me that since I can afford a Benz I can afford a winter set w/ snow tires. So, I should get three sets? I currently have two sets. I'm not happy with the dry performance of the OEM all-seasons I have and they came off the car at three weeks old. the decision at hand is whether or not to get a better A/S or go right to a winter performance tire.

I understand the white weather benefits of the winter tire but what nobody talks about are the drawbacks, especially poignant in our mild winters.

[drwrx]

Honestly, since you already have an extra set of wheels and your not impressed with the current all seasons you have I would try to put dedicated winter tires on them.

A good set of all-seasons will get you through most of what this region will throw at you, but it's that last 5% that gets you.
The cost isn't that much different and you should susupect that the Snows will last a couple of years (depending on how you drive).

The problem I see with the "performance snow tires" is that I haven't read any tests on them.
Tire rack has done:
Bridgestone Blizzak WS70
Bridgestone Blizzak WS60
Bridgestone Blizzak LM60
Continental ExtremeWinterContact
Dunlop Graspic DS-3
Michelin X-Ice Xi2
General Altimax Arctic
Firestone Winterforce
Pirelli Winter Carving Edge
Goodyear Ultra Grip Ice

Some of these are better than others. But none of the winter tires you posted above have any tests that I can find and I am always a bit leary about putting "untested" tires on a car. If you can find any of the top 5 above in a size that will fit your wheels that's where I would go.

That said, the Continental ExtremeContact DWS are supposedly very impressive foul weather tires.

[PGT]

I, too, would like objective tests. Lacking those, the survey results have also shown to be fairly accurate, especially with lots of miles posted. the Dunlop winter tires are #2 on the list for the 'performance' category. the Pirelli's #3. The Michelin Pilot Alpin PA3 are #1 (but no size that works for me).

My biggest concern about winter rubber is how long it will last on dry roads with a (nearly) 400hp RWD car.

[Sabre]

I should mention that I have the WS60's on my winter wheels and have been very happy with them. Their wet and ice traction are the best I have had. I regularly drive on snow covered roads, hence the choice though.

[goob_os101]

Performance cars need a dedicated summer setup and winter setup. I was in the same boat as you. I was just going to slap on the new conti DWS's since they handled snow and did well in the dry and wet. But i realized that I would wear through the winter tread quickly in the summer then when winter rolls around be basically be on a cheap A/S tire. I bought a set of wheels dedicated to snows. snatched up Snow tires for $150 for all 4 w/ 5k on them. Check craigslist often.

FD RX7 wheels = $125
General Altimax Arctics = $150
Total = $275
Being ready for any snow = Priceless wait $275

[PGT]

wish it was that cheap for my car.

[thermatico]

Begin opinion...

I'm in the same boat. I currently have a set of LM60 Blizzaks sitting in my basement waiting for it to get cold enough for them to be mounted. From what research I did, the biggest issue is maintaining traction in marginal weather. Like me, you're probably going to find something else to drive if you have enough warning on the white stuff or even a hard rain. (I have a 99 Ford Ranger as a back up vehicle). When I mention marginal weather I'm talking about things like light rain, fog, or non-sticking snow. The problem with all-weather or summer tires is that they can become very hard in the cold weather and without ample time to warm up, will provide very poor traction in these conditions. As you previously noticed, winter tires are very soft and will help provide traction quickly in the cold weather. The problem being, if you run them when it's too warm, they ablate very quickly, which puts a big dent in your wallet when you have to quickly replace them.

I feel like it's worth it to have the peace of mind that comes with the dedicated winter tires. Since I'm putting winter tires on my stock wheels, I'll have to spend the winter season looking for decent set of summer wheels and tires. Why did I buy this car again? All I hear is the giant sucking sound on my wallet.

[Sabre]

All I hear is the giant sucking sound on my wallet.

lol, I think that would happen with any car that any of us owns. It's the spring/fall days on the twisty roads where the car feels like an extension of out bodies that drives us.

[PGT]

got this note back from Alex at Tire Rack, asking about the Pirelli and Dunlap performance winter tires:

The Dunlop's are better in snow, the Pirelli's gives the most sporty dry road handling. I'd do the Dunlop's personally for winter. The Dunlop gives up a tad of dry turn in, over the Pirellis

for me, that sort of settles it between the two. The Pirelli's.

Now, to get the new AMG wheels sorted...still waiting to hear back from the distributor in the UK

[PGT]

Wheels arrived today. I didn't get confirmation on them being available and shipping until Wednesday, so, I lost some time on ordering tires. Supplies are getting short/non-existent.

Ended up ordering Conti DWS. We'll see how they do...they can't suck any more than the stock Pirelli's did.

[PGT]

so.....5k miles with the Conti DWS and they're feathered to shit up front.


Tire Rack being the excellent vendor they are has offered me 25% off a new set of whatever I want. So.....deal with noisy DWS (with plenty of tread), or spend $700 on a set of Dunlop SP Winter Sport 3D? Or, another performance A/S set is an option too..

note the right edge of the left tire.....alternating blocks are touching the garage floor pickup up dust, meaning they're feathered badly

[drwrx]

That is a perfect example of tire feathering. I may just have to keep a copy of that pic for my archives.
Feathering (or mild cupping) usually occurs with too much toe, or worn suspension components. Both seem unlikely in your case. So I suspect it is some issue with the tires. It usualy occurs on the outside edge, which looks to be the opposite of yours, unless I'm seeing it wrong. Is it on all of them or just up-front?
I assume you can hear it and possibly even feel it inside the car?
If it were me, I would live with it for a while and see if it gets worse. If you can survive the winter than perhaps keep an eye out for some specials at the end of the season.

[PGT]

inside edge on both front tires. It's a 2010 MB E550 Coupe.....tires went on at 7k miles and came off at 12k. I got an alignment right after they came off, as I was putting summer rubber on and wanted to be sure there were no issues. The dealer reported that toe was in spec before/after so that pretty much puts the blame on the tires.

Continental won't cover it.

[Sabre]

The same thing happened to my Neova's I thought I had a wheel bearing go! I hate to say it, but the sound will only get worse. Probably better to either replace them or shave them (to get ride of the feathering and hopefully get more wear before it comes back).

[PGT]

the response from Tire Rack was "Drive on it and see if it improves". Thing is...they're winter tires and Conti has a "1 Yr Satisfaction guarantee"....

They did fine in the snow and rain but sucked for any sort of spirited driving so I'm not inclined to do anything more than burn them up and not buy again.