Cel codes after some gasket replacement and bolt tightening

[Phibs]

Replaced DP gasket with remflex.
Tightened Up-pipe bolts
Tightened bolt holding two halves of turbo together ( wasn't moving but hey )

After first Cel (P0244) I turned down the manual boost controller and reset ECU, same problem. Turned down again, same problem.

The error code was something about wastegate A, high input... any ideas?
Happens @ high RPMS and >= 22 PSI of boost.

http://bsd-unix.net/seitz/enginuity/cel/

Note1: Car actually felt like it had a bigger turbo in it, but something is up obviously.

Note2: This turbo has the WGA from an FP Green, it is a TD06-20G, should it matter?

Is there any way to go EWG that will be cost effective?

Is it safe to drive if I keep off high boost?

[midnit]

Zaxrex, were you drunk when you posted that reply last night?

[Phibs]

So talked to Darrin about this and he said that I should set the fuel cut at something more like 25 PSI since 22 is a bit low. That being said, would keeping the MBC or going with the prodrive electric boost solenoid be a better option for controlling boost?

[complacent]

An electronic boost controller is worth its weight in gold. Your options for tuning increase dramatically with one, as does your reliability.

[Phibs]

Well it's an electronic boost solenoid that replaces teh stock one, not a controller afaik...

[zaxrex]

Zaxrex, were you drunk when you posted that reply last night?

Yes, yes I was. I blame it on this. Those preview and submit buttons are too close together that early in the morning.

[Phibs]

lol I'm an idiot I know but I value ANY advice you guys have, so lemme have it

So I currently have a hallman MBC, would this:

http://www.oakos.com/Merchant2/merchant ... PRDBOOSSOL

Offer better boost control or should I invest in a smarter electronic one and if so which?

[zaxrex]

Your solenoid is controlled by something. It is just an on/off valve that helps regulate the wastegate cycle.

The factory ECU can control the solenoid, so can a replacement EBC.

If you are having trouble holding boost pressure, it could be the controller, solenoid, wastegate, or pressure relief valve (BOV).

Replace the solenoid and adjust your tune. If that makes the difference, then you are done. The next least expensive thing would be to swap BOVs with someone. If that helps, then you may need to crush the diaphram a bit on yours, or replace it.

Find the problem, then apply the solution.

[Phibs]

Your solenoid is controlled by something. It is just an on/off valve that helps regulate the wastegate cycle.

The factory ECU can control the solenoid, so can a replacement EBC.

If you are having trouble holding boost pressure, it could be the controller, solenoid, wastegate, or pressure relief valve (BOV).

Replace the solenoid and adjust your tune. If that makes the difference, then you are done. The next least expensive thing would be to swap BOVs with someone. If that helps, then you may need to crush the diaphram a bit on yours, or replace it.

Find the problem, then apply the solution.

I don't have any trouble holding boost, but I would like to be able to control it better in all situations, not just for the gear it was tuned in.

[zaxrex]

I don't have any trouble holding boost, but I would like to be able to control it better in all situations, not just for the gear it was tuned in.

Ok, so you have eliminated two of those four, and have a replacement for the third. See if you can make the stock controller do what you want. If not, then ask yourself how much money do you have, what do you want it to do, and would that money be better used on you or on your car.

[Phibs]

I don't have any trouble holding boost, but I would like to be able to control it better in all situations, not just for the gear it was tuned in.

Ok, so you have eliminated two of those four, and have a replacement for the third. See if you can make the stock controller do what you want. If not, then ask yourself how much money do you have, what do you want it to do, and would that money be better used on you or on your car.

Hehe what do I want it to do? Hit max boost as fast as possible in gear 3+ ?

[Sabre]

After first Cel (P0244) I turned down the manual boost controller and reset ECU, same problem. Turned down again, same problem.

The error code was something about wastegate A, high input... any ideas?
Happens @ high RPMS and >= 22 PSI of boost.

Note1: Car actually felt like it had a bigger turbo in it, but something is up obviously.

Looks like you're over boosting... and even worse, you are running extremely lean while doing it. The reason it feels faster is because you are so lean. You probably are making more power, but at the expense of your engine. It's good that your car was throwing a CEL. It was letting you know that something is/was wrong.

Here's your three logs sorted by AFR's:

Code: Select all

AFR	RPM	Boost	Speed
11.76	5270	-11.46	45
11.76	5774	-10.30	45
11.76	5514	-9.87	60
11.76	4926	-8.27	50
11.76	2372	-6.53	24
11.76	3492	-2.90	63
11.76	2500	-1.02	35
11.76	2574	-0.29	49
11.76	3125	-0.15	22
11.76	3301	0.44	22
11.76	2498	0.58	24
11.76	2508	0.58	35
11.76	2622	0.87	50
11.76	2666	1.16	25
11.76	3450	1.16	23
11.76	2566	1.31	35
11.76	2636	1.60	50
11.76	2740	1.89	25
11.76	3645	2.03	23
11.76	2644	2.18	50
11.76	2626	2.18	35
11.76	2891	2.90	25
11.76	3810	3.05	25
11.76	5053	3.05	50
11.76	5464	3.19	71
11.76	2665	3.19	50
11.76	2704	3.19	35
11.76	3034	3.92	25
11.76	2792	4.06	35
11.76	2705	4.21	51
11.76	4025	4.21	25
11.76	2856	4.93	35
11.76	3169	5.08	27
11.76	2753	5.08	51
11.91	2784	5.80	52
12.05	4317	5.95	28
12.20	2944	6.09	37
12.35	3333	6.53	27
12.35	2812	6.53	52
12.50	3040	7.11	37
12.50	2880	7.11	53
12.50	6162	7.40	40
12.64	2880	7.69	53
12.64	3448	7.84	63
12.79	4570	8.13	28
12.79	3138	8.27	38
12.79	3528	8.42	30
12.94	2916	8.56	53
12.94	5252	8.85	52
12.94	2983	9.29	53
13.08	6526	9.43	65
13.08	3234	9.58	38
13.08	3043	10.01	53
13.08	3733	10.59	30
13.08	3075	10.59	55
13.23	3370	11.03	41
13.23	3131	11.32	55
13.23	3178	12.04	57
13.38	3476	12.77	41
13.38	3216	12.91	57
13.38	3445	13.20	61
13.38	4919	13.35	30
13.38	3982	13.64	33
13.38	3295	13.64	59
13.38	3428	14.07	61
13.52	5821	14.22	60
13.52	3354	14.36	59
13.52	3598	14.80	43
13.52	6609	16.25	62
13.52	5258	16.40	67
13.52	5402	16.40	52
13.67	6572	16.40	40
13.67	3745	16.83	43
13.67	4211	17.12	37
13.82	3891	18.86	47
13.82	5273	18.86	30
13.97	4501	20.46	37
13.97	6148	20.46	56
13.97	4043	20.60	47
13.97	6344	20.75	35
13.97	6061	21.33	56
14.11	5660	21.33	53
14.11	5676	21.33	30
14.11	6034	21.33	35
14.11	5821	21.47	53
14.26	5976	21.76	51
14.26	6395	21.76	57
14.26	4174	21.76	50
14.26	5790	21.76	67
14.26	6783	21.76	62
14.41	5780	21.91	51
14.41	6213	21.91	57
14.41	5494	22.05	45
14.41	5405	22.05	63
14.41	5210	22.20	63
14.41	4758	22.35	40
14.55	5051	22.35	40
14.70	5308	22.35	45
14.85	4336	22.35	50
14.85	4486	22.35	54
15.73	4656	22.35	54
17.20	4803	22.35	58
20.29	4978	22.35	58
20.29	5136	22.35	63

Notice the last half where you are running 20+lbs of boost and 14:1 AFR's? That is extremely dangerous. Did you hear a sound that sounded like BB's being dropped in a can or anything else unusual?

I gotta tell you man; you built the car up, had it tuned and should have left it, as when I drove it, it was feeling great. Now that things have changed on it, you are running around with what looks like an unsafe tune and running a huge risk of blowing your engine.

If things are sorted out according to you (the smell of gas etc. is gone), then I would get it retuned and be happy with it. I smell all kinds of things every day from my car, it's the price of running a built engine and large turbo.

[spazegun2213]

jeff has given numerous amazing tunes...

$5 says he knows a LOT more than you about tuning these cars, and i agree with julian, 12:1+ is NOT safe. But jeffs tune back on, quityerbitchen and enjoy the turbo for at least a month before you decide something is wrong.... because you just changed your entire car with that big turbo.. you need time to adjust.

[Phibs]

After first Cel (P0244) I turned down the manual boost controller and reset ECU, same problem. Turned down again, same problem.

The error code was something about wastegate A, high input... any ideas?
Happens @ high RPMS and >= 22 PSI of boost.

Note1: Car actually felt like it had a bigger turbo in it, but something is up obviously.

Looks like you're over boosting... and even worse, you are running extremely lean while doing it. The reason it feels faster is because you are so lean. You probably are making more power, but at the expense of your engine. It's good that your car was throwing a CEL. It was letting you know that something is/was wrong.

Here's your three logs sorted by AFR's:

Code: Select all

AFR	RPM	Boost	Speed
11.76	5270	-11.46	45
11.76	5774	-10.30	45
11.76	5514	-9.87	60
11.76	4926	-8.27	50
11.76	2372	-6.53	24
11.76	3492	-2.90	63
11.76	2500	-1.02	35
11.76	2574	-0.29	49
11.76	3125	-0.15	22
11.76	3301	0.44	22
11.76	2498	0.58	24
11.76	2508	0.58	35
11.76	2622	0.87	50
11.76	2666	1.16	25
11.76	3450	1.16	23
11.76	2566	1.31	35
11.76	2636	1.60	50
11.76	2740	1.89	25
11.76	3645	2.03	23
11.76	2644	2.18	50
11.76	2626	2.18	35
11.76	2891	2.90	25
11.76	3810	3.05	25
11.76	5053	3.05	50
11.76	5464	3.19	71
11.76	2665	3.19	50
11.76	2704	3.19	35
11.76	3034	3.92	25
11.76	2792	4.06	35
11.76	2705	4.21	51
11.76	4025	4.21	25
11.76	2856	4.93	35
11.76	3169	5.08	27
11.76	2753	5.08	51
11.91	2784	5.80	52
12.05	4317	5.95	28
12.20	2944	6.09	37
12.35	3333	6.53	27
12.35	2812	6.53	52
12.50	3040	7.11	37
12.50	2880	7.11	53
12.50	6162	7.40	40
12.64	2880	7.69	53
12.64	3448	7.84	63
12.79	4570	8.13	28
12.79	3138	8.27	38
12.79	3528	8.42	30
12.94	2916	8.56	53
12.94	5252	8.85	52
12.94	2983	9.29	53
13.08	6526	9.43	65
13.08	3234	9.58	38
13.08	3043	10.01	53
13.08	3733	10.59	30
13.08	3075	10.59	55
13.23	3370	11.03	41
13.23	3131	11.32	55
13.23	3178	12.04	57
13.38	3476	12.77	41
13.38	3216	12.91	57
13.38	3445	13.20	61
13.38	4919	13.35	30
13.38	3982	13.64	33
13.38	3295	13.64	59
13.38	3428	14.07	61
13.52	5821	14.22	60
13.52	3354	14.36	59
13.52	3598	14.80	43
13.52	6609	16.25	62
13.52	5258	16.40	67
13.52	5402	16.40	52
13.67	6572	16.40	40
13.67	3745	16.83	43
13.67	4211	17.12	37
13.82	3891	18.86	47
13.82	5273	18.86	30
13.97	4501	20.46	37
13.97	6148	20.46	56
13.97	4043	20.60	47
13.97	6344	20.75	35
13.97	6061	21.33	56
14.11	5660	21.33	53
14.11	5676	21.33	30
14.11	6034	21.33	35
14.11	5821	21.47	53
14.26	5976	21.76	51
14.26	6395	21.76	57
14.26	4174	21.76	50
14.26	5790	21.76	67
14.26	6783	21.76	62
14.41	5780	21.91	51
14.41	6213	21.91	57
14.41	5494	22.05	45
14.41	5405	22.05	63
14.41	5210	22.20	63
14.41	4758	22.35	40
14.55	5051	22.35	40
14.70	5308	22.35	45
14.85	4336	22.35	50
14.85	4486	22.35	54
15.73	4656	22.35	54
17.20	4803	22.35	58
20.29	4978	22.35	58
20.29	5136	22.35	63

Notice the last half where you are running 20+lbs of boost and 14:1 AFR's? That is extremely dangerous. Did you hear a sound that sounded like BB's being dropped in a can or anything else unusual?

I gotta tell you man; you built the car up, had it tuned and should have left it, as when I drove it, it was feeling great. Now that things have changed on it, you are running around with what looks like an unsafe tune and running a huge risk of blowing your engine.

If things are sorted out according to you (the smell of gas etc. is gone), then I would get it retuned and be happy with it. I smell all kinds of things every day from my car, it's the price of running a built engine and large turbo.

I will log some more with my current settings, I did some last night and processed the log files and am not seeing the lean @ high boost conditions right now and I am hitting up to 22 PSI.

[BryanH]

IB OMFG this POS just BLEW THE HELL UP!!!!

[drwrx]

I'm not certain I trust those AFRs. If we are to believe that those AFRs are correct than you are deffinately running way too lean dangerously lean in fact!

I assume you didn't touch the fuel or the tune, correct? And I find it unlikely that Jeff would tune you at those levels so my guess is that those AFRs are not legit.

This log just seems odd all the way around. Your RPMs and speed are all over the place. You jump from 3598 to 6609 than drop to 5258 and it just gets weirder from there. Your speeds fluctuate wildly as well from 52 to 28 while you RPMs go from 2784 to 4317 and from 27 to 52 while dropping from 3333 RPMs to 2812. Something is just not right here!

Now, About boost. Earlier in your logs it looked like you were running just over 21 psi and now your running just over 22 psi. And if that is all that changed (in other words all you did was turned the manual boost controller up to 22 psi over 21psi) that would NOT account for what is going on in these logs! It certainly would NOT change your AFRs below 4,000 RPMs.

It's just bizarre, your starting out at 11.76 and just get leaner and leaner until your at 20.29. There is nothing that seems consistant with these logs. I'm stumped.

[Phibs]

I did not change ANYTHING but the fuel cut and the MBC a bit.

This is from a 3rd gear pull today:

(1:14pm) [seitz@dali] [~/public_html/enginuity] > ~/table.pl enginuitylog_20071119_120736.csv
AFR RPM Boost Speed
15.435 2909 -0.15 29
14.553 3002 2.03 29
13.965 3130 3.63 30
13.083 3244 5.51 30
12.348 3375 7.55 32
11.76 3526 10.30 32
11.76 3715 13.64 35
11.76 3924 16.83 35
11.76 4154 19.88 38
11.76 4377 21.91 38
11.76 4668 22.20 42
11.76 4922 21.91 42
11.76 5191 21.47 47
11.76 5396 21.18 47
11.76 5627 20.75 47
11.76 5864 20.46 52
11.76 6067 20.60 52
11.76 6237 20.46 57
11.76 6437 20.31 57
11.76 6664 20.17 62
11.76 6716 12.04 62
12.201 6490 -10.16 67
13.377 6018 -11.61 67
16.17 5504 -11.75 70
20.286 5009 -11.61 70

[Phibs]

IB OMFG this POS just BLEW THE HELL UP!!!!

Thanks for the helpful post

[drwrx]

15.435 2909 -0.15 29
14.553 3002 2.03 29
13.965 3130 3.63 30
13.083 3244 5.51 30
12.348 3375 7.55 32
11.76 3526 10.30 32
11.76 3715 13.64 35
11.76 3924 16.83 35
11.76 4154 19.88 38
11.76 4377 21.91 38
11.76 4668 22.20 42
11.76 4922 21.91 42
11.76 5191 21.47 47
11.76 5396 21.18 47
11.76 5627 20.75 47
11.76 5864 20.46 52
11.76 6067 20.60 52
11.76 6237 20.46 57
11.76 6437 20.31 57
11.76 6664 20.17 62

The 11.76 is right back to where you were after Jeff's tune so I suspect it isn't entirely accureate but is likely exactly where you should to be.

None of this looks bad at all. Your AFR transistion from 3,000 RPMs to 3500 RPMs look exactly how I'd like them to. I think your fine. I don't see any issues here.

Your boost hit just over 22 psi at 4660 RPMs and dropped slightly from there to just over 20 psi. which is just fine.

You may want to do some logs of on throttle / off throttle / on throttle and watch your AFR and boost transition in those logs as well.

[Sabre]

Finally normal looking numbers! They look just fine now and let's hope they stay that way. Enginuity was apparently having a bad day on the other run

Darrin: The 11.76AFR's are because his narrow band O2 sensor can't go below that.

Phibs: Things are looking good now. DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING Now concentrate on learning the new power curve and how differently the car acts.

As it gets colder, do periodic (once a month or when the temperature changes drastically) 4th gear runs to check boost pressure and adjust the MBC as needed. As it gets colder, you will need to lower it a little to maintain the 21PSI that you were tuned for. As it gets warmer, the opposite will apply.

And before you ask... MBC's and EBC's all have this issue (ok, Darrin's doesn't as it can compensate... but they don't make it anymore).

[Phibs]

So even an expensive EBC would have the same problems? Man anyone wanna hold darrin while I borrow his?

[drwrx]

Actually, mine is very problematic and very difficult to tune with.
While it may have interesting features, it has been a huge pain for me to work around.

[avriette]

(1:14pm) [seitz@dali] [~/public_html/enginuity] > ~/table.pl enginuitylog_20071119_120736.csv

perl is for losers.

[Phibs]

[Sabre]

(1:14pm) [seitz@dali] [~/public_html/enginuity] > ~/table.pl enginuitylog_20071119_120736.csv

perl is for losers.

There are uses for it... but I could have done it quicker in sed/awk then perl.