Dive planes: hype or not?

[avriette]

Behold the mighty dive plane:



When looking for information about them on the webbernets, I find lots and lots of dissertations and other papers from naval people on dive planes on submarines. No surprise there, I guess.

It seemed that a lot of the people at Redline last week were running them, but then there were cars that were hauling ass without them. Ross had none. Phil had ones that are only marginally bigger than the stock STI "speed nipples" or whatever you want to call them. Those evil Hankook cars had them. (and won!)

They all seem to be about the same angle. They all seem to be either single or compound, and all of them have about the same depth and length. Because of the huge disparity in aerodynamics on the front of the car, I'm inclined to believe that it's not especially effective. But then, the STI made a believer out off me when it comes to aerodynamics. Anyone got experience with and without these on the track?

Did you consider them on the tC, Ross?

[Sabre]

They seem pretty small to be effective and the location is not a strong point (aka, it's more likely to bend that section in rather than provide any downforce). All this is my opinion of course and I have been wrong in the past Now front lips are a different story...

[spazegun2213]

Well, I think ptuning will put them on the TC and they are "supposed" to add down force. However i would stick to a front lip/spliter for gaining real front downforce first.

there is still a lot of debate about dive planes and if they actually work well.

[Mr Kleen]

I always heard them called "canards" but "dive planes" sounds cooler. with their small surface area I doubt they do much for a street car, but I could be wrong.

[Libra Monkee]

I went to high school with a guy named Canard. He was a bit of a douche.

[/tangent]

[zaxrex]

I would think that they would be more for vortex ceneration than anything else.

On planes, things like these help to recombine the disperate velocity flows around an object by creating a buffer layer of air to grease the other two. This helps reduce major turbulence.

Don't know if it is the same for cars.

[Sabre]

^^^ Same reason the Evo MR's have them on the back of their cars; to reduce turbulence.

[avriette]

They seem pretty small to be effective and the location is not a strong point (aka, it's more likely to bend that section in rather than provide any downforce). All this is my opinion of course and I have been wrong in the past Now front lips are a different story...

What little I have found on them in relation to cars seems to say that you trade drag for downforce in about equal quantities. But like Ross said, I think I'd trade a diffuser and splitter for dive planes any day. Even if they look cool.

[MrC@ptuning.com]

Well, I think ptuning will put them on the TC and they are "supposed" to add down force. However i would stick to a front lip/spliter for gaining real front downforce first.

there is still a lot of debate about dive planes and if they actually work well.

Fortunately for us, we didn't have to play around with aerodynamics at summit, since our only competitor's (SVT focus) lap time was 7 seconds off of Ross' best time. That's not so say that next year, we're not going to have real competition from other shops.

I'm a big believer of diffusers, splitters, vortex generators, wings, canards and Gurney flaps. Look at the F1 cars, if they remove all those wings, the car would be sliding all over the track since the amount of power the F1 cars put out and the little that they weigh, without the massive downforce, the cars would not have any traction at all.

Traction during cornering is all about weight distribution, the more weight that's on each tire, the more traction it has--to a certain degree. Of course having a lot of downforce for cornering increases drag and reduces top speed. Having an "active" wing, that can increase downforce during cornering and decrease during fast straights would be the ideal setup. Of course, in F1, that would be called cheating.

We have a lot of time from now to the next Redline event at Summit to play around with the tC. We'll definitely be playing around with aero components to generate more downforce for cornering so that Ross can apply more power around turns. Splitters are definitely in the future as well as canards--not the simple horizontal wing, but the canards that have a horizontal wing along with a vertical wing at the end. The FWD and AWD cars both have apparent understeer, so the more downforce we can generate to keep the front wheels planted, the less understeer we'll have around turns.

Also the tC is going to need that extra downforce, when we add another 100-200whp to the equation. We'll probably send the coil-overs back to progress for a more aggressive valving along with springs that will have an extra 300lbs of spring pressure over what we're running now. The one thing that we'll loose next season is the Jet-sound under the bridge since we'll be running an unrestricted exhaust system next season. Now if only we can figure how to remove a couple hundred pounds without making it look like a gutted car

[chicken n waffles]

i can't wait to see the next stage of that sick tc

i will miss the jet sound , but i can always replay it with crystal clarity in my head.

[Mr Kleen]

Now if only we can figure how to remove a couple hundred pounds without making it look like a gutted car

replace the glass roof with CF, replace the rear windows with plexi.
now that that's solved, when do I start working for the shop full time?

[MrC@ptuning.com]

Now if only we can figure how to remove a couple hundred pounds without making it look like a gutted car

replace the glass roof with CF, replace the rear windows with plexi.
now that that's solved, when do I start working for the shop full time?

We've already looked into the CF roof (Kaminari makes one for the tc)--supposedly shaves of 46lbs. We're also looking into a CF trunk, but well have to stick with glass since plexi/lexan will put us into unlimited. We have an opening for a detailer to clean up the tc after each practice session at the next event

[WRXWagon2112]

We've already looked into the CF roof (Kaminari makes one for the tc)--supposedly shaves of 46lbs. We're also looking into a CF trunk, but well have to stick with glass since plexi/lexan will put us into unlimited. We have an opening for a detailer to clean up the tc after each practice session at the next event

To save additional weight, replace the steel body panels with plastic panels ala Saturn.

--Alan

[Mr Kleen]

We've already looked into the CF roof (Kaminari makes one for the tc)--supposedly shaves of 46lbs. We're also looking into a CF trunk, but well have to stick with glass since plexi/lexan will put us into unlimited. We have an opening for a detailer to clean up the tc after each practice session at the next event

OK, so I got us half way there. how much do the side skirts weigh? can the wing be swapped for a lighter one? sounds like it's time to gut the tC...

does this detailer position come with any parts discounts? remember who kept trying to get you guys to come over for hot food and home made beer cheese at the DCAWD tent...

[zaxrex]

Now if only we can figure how to remove a couple hundred pounds without making it look like a gutted car

Option 1: Put Ross on a strict diet
Option 2: Use a horse jockey / little person
Option 3: Program the car to drive itself