My head gasket better not be going!!!

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:57 am

2 days ago my car started acting funny in the Starbucks drivethru. I then noticed the temp guage needle went up almost into red. My wife had already placed her order so I just turned the heat onto #2 setting and that made the temp gauge needle drop to the normal operating temp.

I was still freakin' out. I stopped in the Walmart parking lot just in case I needed emergency coolant supply and found that I started getting the #2 cylinder misfire code again:x . The coolant overflow tank had been leaking slightly but I thought I should have coolant still in the main tank.

The car was driving fine after that (AFAIK).

I will check the level when it is cold tomorrow before I start the car to make sure it is okay.

I hope my gasket is not going on me

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:04 pm

That sucks Will! Check you coolant levels while the car is cold. Also, while you are in there, I'd check for any air that might have gotten into the coolant system.

Cereb Daithi · Post by **Cereb Daithi** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:09 pm

Oogh.... the same sort of thing happened when i cracked a cyllinder on my LTD. best of luck to you man. hope its nothing serious

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:14 pm

Once you have the coolant levels up to where they are supposed to be, start the car cold and let it idle for a while and see if the temp raises extemely high again. Watch under the car for leaking coolant. If you have a bad head gasket, pray that the coolant is leaking out of the block and not into the cyclinders. It could also just be that the thermostat stuck and allowed the temp to get to that level. If you're not dumping coolant onto the pavement and you're not seeing lots of white smoke I think you are in the clear. Keep the levels up and watch for puddles.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:13 pm

drwrx wrote:Once you have the coolant levels up to where they are supposed to be, start the car cold and let it idle for a while and see if the temp raises extemely high again. Watch under the car for leaking coolant. If you have a bad head gasket, pray that the coolant is leaking out of the block and not into the cyclinders. It could also just be that the thermostat stuck and allowed the temp to get to that level. If you're not dumping coolant onto the pavement and you're not seeing lots of white smoke I think you are in the clear. Keep the levels up and watch for puddles.

Okay, so before I started my car this morning I checked the coolant level in the main reservior and the overflow reservior. The main reservior was 3/4 low and the overflow was 3/4 full. I refilled the main reservior back to full and proceeded to let the car warm up. No overflow and no leaking anywhere.

I then drove 180 miles back to VA. When I got home I noticed that my overflow had (yes you guessed it) overflowed...a lot.

My buddy Dan from AndrewTech said it might be the thermostat. Another buddy from another forum said I need to check the relay to the fan(s) as well. How do you test the fan(s) relay to make sure it is working properly?

Another thing, do you think that the installation of the FMIC and the Hella supertones are blocking too much of the radiator so I can't get adequate cooling? I hope not b/c I love both too much.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:20 pm

My wife just text'd me on the phone and said to think about trading it in for another car...too late for that one

Cheaper and better to stick to this one since it is almost paid off...and I put a lot of money, time, and effort into it.

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:21 pm

Doubtful, but you never know. The easiest way to test your fans is just to let you car idle for awhile. They should turn on within 5 or so minutes of your car just sitting

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:22 pm

Sabre wrote:Doubtful, but you never know. The easiest way to test your fans is just to let you car idle for awhile. They should turn on within 5 or so minutes of your car just sitting

Actually, my buddy just said to let it idle for a bit and then turn the A/C on. Both fans should then come on.

schvin · Post by **schvin** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:28 pm

hoping it's just a thermostat... g'luck.

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:52 pm

sirwilliam wrote:Okay, so before I started my car this morning I checked the coolant level in the main reservior and the overflow reservior. The main reservior was 3/4 low and the overflow was 3/4 full. I refilled the main reservior back to full and proceeded to let the car warm up. No overflow and no leaking anywhere.

I then drove 180 miles back to VA. When I got home I noticed that my overflow had (yes you guessed it) overflowed...a lot.

My buddy Dan from AndrewTech said it might be the thermostat. Another buddy from another forum said I need to check the relay to the fan(s) as well. How do you test the fan(s) relay to make sure it is working properly?

Another thing, do you think that the installation of the FMIC and the Hella supertones are blocking too much of the radiator so I can't get adequate cooling? I hope not b/c I love both too much.

Good news: I don't think it is your head gasket.

There are any number of things that can be causing what your experiencing.

The fans should kick on after a little while of idleing. Let the vehicle idle, and if the fans kick on within 15 minutes or so that's not the problem.

I think you have had your front-mount on long enough to know whether it was going to cause a cooling problem. It should have been over-heating long before this if that was the issue.

My bet would be on the thermostat. At least they're cheap and relatively easy to replace. go here:
http://www.scoobymods.com/forums/attach ... 1074361233

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:57 pm

Yeah, it wasn't the fan relay, they turned on just fine.

I just ordered a CRUCIAL THERMOSTAT

...been meaning to get one of those but now I don't have a choice and I have to get a new thermostat so why not

Oh, is this going to be easy to put in? Just a @#$@# to have to drain my coolant again

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:18 am

I was going to jump in and say thermostat, but the good Dr beat me to it.

I have no idea how difficult they are to swap in the Subaru flat 4.

but I can tell you that the thermostat in a 1984 Dodge Charger is so easy to get to you can change it in the parking lot of a McDs in less than 30 minutes with basic hand tools.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:29 am

I haven't thoroughly looked over every square inch but from what I see the only drainage/leaking is from the hole on my overflow where the tube goes in. I will keep checking the coolant every couple of days to see the level. I thought I now detected coolant in the exhaust yesterday when I got back home from a drive...but I couldn't be sure if it wasn't just the strong smell coming from the engine bay (where the overflow leaked) mixing in w/ the exhaust fumes. I hope it isn't the head gasket...I don't have the funds for a rebuild right now.

Mr Kleen wrote:I was going to jump in and say thermostat, but the good Dr beat me to it. I have no idea how difficult they are to swap in the Subaru flat 4.

but I can tell you that the thermostat in a 1984 Dodge Charger is so easy to get to you can change it in the parking lot of a McDs in less than 30 minutes with basic hand tools.

I found out it is not that bad but you have to drain all the coolant and refill it again...that is a pain.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:12 am

Update:

Last night after 4 test pulls on the new maps for logging, I pulled in the driveway to idle and my temp needle went up again and this time turning on the heat at full blast didn't help at all. Turned off the car and called it a night.

3.5hrs later when I woke up, I checked my coolant level this morning and it had barely dropped from full in the main reservior...and of course yesterday the overflow did its thing.

I have a container of subaru coolant w/ me in the car. I topped that off this morning before I left for work...and after loading up a better/safer/more powerful tune...yeah, I now. I took it nice and easy today. My buddy that did that tune said that I should be right at 300WHP/Torque now. I am not going to push it until after I get my thermostat back in. Didn't overheat this morning while warming up, didn't do it while driving, and didn't do it when I got to work...dunno.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 10:46 am

Well, after installing the thermostat, the coolany keeps coming out of the overflow. After doing 5 hard pulls from 2k-7k for data logging yesterday, my coolant was once again in my engine bay. My car is running great aside from that w/ the new tune, but my coolant keeps overflowing so there is definitely something allowing air into the coolant system. My buddy Dan at AndrewTech is pretty sure it is my head gasket but I am still in denial He said it will cost me ~$2000 in parts and labor for a head gasket job. If I want to send the heads out to get checked out and get the head milled down, that will be another $800. OY! If I was to just get a stronger/better 2.5L block it might be more cost effective in the long run...I don't know. Maybe just fix the head gasket and call it a day. Either way, my wife won't be happy about the cost. What do you guys think?

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:03 am

Check all of your coolant lines first, esp. the one on top of and below the turbo! That's more than likely the cause of your problems. What's the highest boost levels you have seen on that engine?

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:45 pm

Sabre wrote:Check all of your coolant lines first, esp. the one on top of and below the turbo! That's more than likely the cause of your problems. What's the highest boost levels you have seen on that engine?

With the less than par Agile tune I was hitting 19-20 but now I have a more efficient tune at 17psi where I am getting the same power if not more.

I need to do a hydrocarbon test on my coolant and a compression test on my block. I am going to call the suby dealer to see if they can test my coolant for me...not sure if they do or not.

avriette · Post by **avriette** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:30 pm

sirwilliam wrote: I need to do a hydrocarbon test on my coolant and a compression test on my block. I am going to call the suby dealer to see if they can test my coolant for me...not sure if they do or not.

I was wondering why nobody had mentioned a compression test. Also, you can usually smell coolant in the exhaust if there's a significant enough leak. I forget the name of it, but there's another procedure where you put a luminescent dye in the coolant and check around the block for any signs its come out. I have no idea how expensive that is, but it was useful in school for diagnosing issues with gasket seals and small cracks in the block/head.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:44 pm

avriette wrote:
sirwilliam wrote: I need to do a hydrocarbon test on my coolant and a compression test on my block. I am going to call the suby dealer to see if they can test my coolant for me...not sure if they do or not.
I was wondering why nobody had mentioned a compression test. Also, you can usually smell coolant in the exhaust if there's a significant enough leak. I forget the name of it, but there's another procedure where you put a luminescent dye in the coolant and check around the block for any signs its come out. I have no idea how expensive that is, but it was useful in school for diagnosing issues with gasket seals and small cracks in the block/head.

I have checked high and low...the only area the coolant is coming out of is the overflow hole. I think I may just replace the coolant cap and see if that fixes it. Better to do the cheap fixes vs. the expensive to rule out what is wrong.

I am also wondering if it might be the water pump? I may put in a better radiator as well if need be. I don't think my FMIC and horns would block enough of the radiator for it to properly cool the system but who knows.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:45 pm

if the water pump was faulty, you'd know by now...

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:43 pm

Mr Kleen wrote:if the water pump was faulty, you'd know by now...

Why is that? Because it would stop pumping and my internals would get fried? What if it is slowly going bad or not running optimally? BTW, how does the pump know to turn on, is there a thermostat switch/sensor built in? Is our pump a clutch or clutchless type? I am trying to get opinions on all sides and I am freakin' out b/c I just want my car to run right.

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 5:03 pm

The pump runs all the time as it's directly connected to the serpentine belt and has no clutch. If your water pump goes, your engine would never run more than 5 minutes without over heating.... ok, maybe if it was in antarctic....