DCAWD.com

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 3:00 pm**

Some of might know this, but some of ya'll won't. A while back my car started throwing a "Cylinder 4 Misfire" CEL. Well after checking AFRs, compression, and changing spark plugs I was still getting the CEL. So, I figured well the only thing left is coil packs. So I drop the car off at Don Beyer this morning so that the coil packs could be tested and replaced if necessary, hopefully under warranty.

Well, I got a call back from Mike at Don Beyer and he had this to say: I, somehow or another, got cracked ring lands on cylinders 3 & 4. It can be repaired (kind of) but even if the car was 100% stock, Subaru doesn't cover this under their warranty because this is where the combustion happens in the combustion engine.

The fix for this problem would be to replace the short block (hense the "kind of") which, since this isn't covered under the warranty, would cost me ~$5800.

Right now I'm just going to bring the car home and park it until I figure out something to do. FML

I'm off to beat babies to death with flails made from sticks and kittens.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 3:03 pm**

Libra Monkee wrote:The fix for this problem would be to replace the short block (hense the "kind of") which, since this isn't covered under the warranty, would cost me ~$5800.

So that's two of us looking for 2.5L short blocks... sorry to hear man!

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 3:04 pm**

Oh wow, that's a bummer. I'll sell you the Miata for three grand, if that helps. It has a random miss, but only over 5k, and only sometimes

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 3:23 pm**

Just out of curiosity... what mods do you have?

-scheherazade

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 3:25 pm**

Damn sorry guys.
Off all the engines here, I would have thought mine would have been the one to trip and fall on its face.

I would have though you would at least been loosing compression if the ring lands were cracked bad enough to cause misfires... How do you diagnose ring land crackage? I mean you sure as hell can't scope the piston while the crank is still in place.

RJ?

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 3:36 pm**

scheherazade wrote:Just out of curiosity... what mods do you have?

-scheherazade

Just the basics; intake, exhaust, UTEC, and brakes.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 3:43 pm**

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 4:07 pm**

zaxrex wrote:Damn sorry guys.
Off all the engines here, I would have thought mine would have been the one to trip and fall on its face.

I would have though you would at least been loosing compression if the ring lands were cracked bad enough to cause misfires... How do you diagnose ring land crackage? I mean you sure as hell can't scope the piston while the crank is still in place.

RJ?

I'm not sure how they came to that conclusion. I assumed they pulled a piston, but saying that outloud does sound a little silly, considering the extent of the work. For the price of a new shortblock, it'd definitely be worth taking somewhere else to have it torn open.

Any details on the diagnosis process, Chuck? Maybe there's some sound associated with the condition. I don't know one way or the other.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 5:11 pm**

Holy crap dude!

I'm also wondering how they figured that out without popping the heads off and/or pulling a piston.

Second opinion time? Talk with Andrew of Andrewtech fame?

That's a ton of loot to go through on a motor.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 5:56 pm**

Did Don Beyer do a compression check or leak down?
If so, do you have those #s?
Seriously, that would be the first thing to do.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 6:19 pm**

drwrx wrote:Did Don Beyer do a compression check or leak down?
If so, do you have those #s?
Seriously, that would be the first thing to do.

The good doctor hit it right on the head. They did a leakdown test. The results (verbatim) are:

Code: Select all

UPON INSPECTION TECHNICIAN FOUND EXCESSIVE LEAKDOWN ON CYLINDER #4. TECHNICIAN PERFORMED A CYLINDER LEAKDOWN TEST ON ENGINE:
CYL#1 - 12%
CYL#2 - 5%
CYL#3 - 20%
CYL#4 - 80%!!! 
TECHINICIAN FOUND AIR LEAKAGE FROM CRANKCASE INDICATING THE THE VEHICLE HAS BROKEN RINGLANDS ON CYL#4 AND MOST LIKELY CYL#3 AS WELL. VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH AN AFTERMARKET INTAKE. AND MANUAL BOOST CONTROLLER. BROKEN RINGLANDS ARE NOT A MATTER FOR WARRANTY. APPROXIMATE COST TO REPLACE SHORT BLOCK IS $5800

I feel weak.

And I'm out of whiskey.

I drink your milkshake

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 9:58 pm**

you've got an MBC? what was it set to?

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 11:11 pm**

If the hardware that came with the UTEC was used, that is an auxiliary boost controller, not an MBC. The UTEC is still controlling the boost, but the bleed valve is required to manage the BCSV at higher pressures that it would normally see.

Or at least that is how it is on my UTEC... It might be a real MBC, but then the logging that we did showing the boost levels being adjusted would not support it.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 12:43 am**

Yep, it does sound like a broken ringland, however, $5,800 is way too much.
If it is "just the rings," a new shortblock is NOT required. But an inspection of the cylinder walls will be required to verify.

I think a call to AR Fab or AndrewTech may be in order.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 2:48 am**

drwrx wrote:If it is "just the rings," a new shortblock is NOT required. But an inspection of the cylinder walls will be required to verify.

THIS! I was in the middle of explaining your predicament to someone when I stopped myself and said, "Wait a minute... what's the likelihood of cracked ring land destroying the whole damn block?" Make the investment to have the engine torn down and inspected. You could get out of this with just new pistons.

I'm sure it's stressful, but you'll get through this, and you'll be glad you took the time to figure it out.

edit: Smartass RJ says, "I have carbon build-up. NEW BLOCK."

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 8:27 am**

snaab wrote:
drwrx wrote:If it is "just the rings," a new shortblock is NOT required. But an inspection of the cylinder walls will be required to verify.
THIS! I was in the middle of explaining your predicament to someone when I stopped myself and said, "Wait a minute... what's the likelihood of cracked ring land destroying the whole damn block?" Make the investment to have the engine torn down and inspected. You could get out of this with just new pistons.

I'm sure it's stressful, but you'll get through this, and you'll be glad you took the time to figure it out.

This man speaks truth. Definitely check with another shop. There's no way it's that much money to fix properly.

snaab wrote: edit: Smartass RJ says, "I have carbon build-up. NEW BLOCK."

Spoken as only a miata owner can do.

Oh I miss the days of sucking up a can of decarbonizer in the Miata and then driving through town like I was spy hunter...

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 9:20 am**

Wow, front page even.

AR Fab High Performance Short Blocks

* Street Fighter Series starting at $2700
* Street Fighter RECON Series starting at $2850
* Ultimate Fighter Packages starting at $7750

Most packages are in stock and can ship the next business day.

I void warranties.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 10:19 am**

I assume that includes pistons and rings.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 10:22 am**

Hey Chuck, sorry to have heard this yesterday. I've had great luck with my engine from Ar FAb (50k and still running strong). The prices quoted do not include labor IIRC. For that money though, you will come away with a NICE block. Definitely give them a call and talk to them!

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 1:05 pm**

Also, what does BCSV stand for?

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 4:54 pm**

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 8:09 pm**

Well! According to this thread the ring lands are a rikki tikkin timebomb.

Remind me why I bought a Subaru?

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 8:20 pm**

That's not very happy...

I really need to quit neglecting mah poor toaster and get it a good road tune.

I'm really sorry about all this Chuck. I even told you to reset the ecu and see if the code returns.

I thought for sure it was a set of plugs or a coilpack or something at worst.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 9:13 pm**

Libra Monkee wrote:Well! According to this thread the ring lands are a rikki tikkin timebomb.

Remind me why I bought a Subaru?

That's an enlightening read. There's so many tiny factors that can affect a car's reliability. Like the saying goes, a chain's only as strong as it's weakest like. At least you know what the issue it's. It'd be worse if you had a phantom problem, whose cause you can't isolate.

Posted: **Sat May 30, 2009 8:24 am**

complacent wrote:I really need to quit neglecting mah poor toaster and get it a good road tune.

Would you like to borrow mine, we're essentially the same (vf series turbo, up, exhaust, TMIC) I have an intake, but that shouldn't make that big a difference, it is an SPT.

Or, you and I (and Julian) the Tacktrix cable and Wideband could take a couple of hours and get that thing set-up right.

Chuck, I'm so sorry for you man. Yes, the 06-07 were notorious for bad ringlands. The stock ECU tends to run crazy lean. There are lots of threads with logs that have AFRs at 14:1 and 15:1 in the open loop / closed loop threshold.

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