Cylinder 4 Misfire
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- Libra Monkee
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Cylinder 4 Misfire
Some of might know this, but some of ya'll won't. A while back my car started throwing a "Cylinder 4 Misfire" CEL. Well after checking AFRs, compression, and changing spark plugs I was still getting the CEL. So, I figured well the only thing left is coil packs. So I drop the car off at Don Beyer this morning so that the coil packs could be tested and replaced if necessary, hopefully under warranty.
Well, I got a call back from Mike at Don Beyer and he had this to say: I, somehow or another, got cracked ring lands on cylinders 3 & 4. It can be repaired (kind of) but even if the car was 100% stock, Subaru doesn't cover this under their warranty because this is where the combustion happens in the combustion engine.
The fix for this problem would be to replace the short block (hense the "kind of") which, since this isn't covered under the warranty, would cost me ~$5800.
Right now I'm just going to bring the car home and park it until I figure out something to do. FML
I'm off to beat babies to death with flails made from sticks and kittens.
Well, I got a call back from Mike at Don Beyer and he had this to say: I, somehow or another, got cracked ring lands on cylinders 3 & 4. It can be repaired (kind of) but even if the car was 100% stock, Subaru doesn't cover this under their warranty because this is where the combustion happens in the combustion engine.
The fix for this problem would be to replace the short block (hense the "kind of") which, since this isn't covered under the warranty, would cost me ~$5800.
Right now I'm just going to bring the car home and park it until I figure out something to do. FML
I'm off to beat babies to death with flails made from sticks and kittens.
Libra Monkee- "Helping DCAWD meet its Equal Opportunity requirement since 2006."
- ElZorro
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
So that's two of us looking for 2.5L short blocks... sorry to hear man!Libra Monkee wrote:The fix for this problem would be to replace the short block (hense the "kind of") which, since this isn't covered under the warranty, would cost me ~$5800.
Jason "El Zorro" Fox
'17 Subaru Forester 2.0XT
DCAWD - old coots in fast scoots.
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- snaab
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Oh wow, that's a bummer. I'll sell you the Miata for three grand, if that helps. It has a random miss, but only over 5k, and only sometimes
RJ
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Just out of curiosity... what mods do you have?
-scheherazade
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- zaxrex
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Damn sorry guys.
Off all the engines here, I would have thought mine would have been the one to trip and fall on its face.
I would have though you would at least been loosing compression if the ring lands were cracked bad enough to cause misfires... How do you diagnose ring land crackage? I mean you sure as hell can't scope the piston while the crank is still in place.
RJ?
Off all the engines here, I would have thought mine would have been the one to trip and fall on its face.
I would have though you would at least been loosing compression if the ring lands were cracked bad enough to cause misfires... How do you diagnose ring land crackage? I mean you sure as hell can't scope the piston while the crank is still in place.
RJ?
Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like stripping your gears
- Libra Monkee
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Just the basics; intake, exhaust, UTEC, and brakes.scheherazade wrote:Just out of curiosity... what mods do you have?
-scheherazade
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- Mr Kleen
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- snaab
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
I'm not sure how they came to that conclusion. I assumed they pulled a piston, but saying that outloud does sound a little silly, considering the extent of the work. For the price of a new shortblock, it'd definitely be worth taking somewhere else to have it torn open.zaxrex wrote:Damn sorry guys.
Off all the engines here, I would have thought mine would have been the one to trip and fall on its face.
I would have though you would at least been loosing compression if the ring lands were cracked bad enough to cause misfires... How do you diagnose ring land crackage? I mean you sure as hell can't scope the piston while the crank is still in place.
RJ?
Any details on the diagnosis process, Chuck? Maybe there's some sound associated with the condition. I don't know one way or the other.
RJ
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Holy crap dude!
I'm also wondering how they figured that out without popping the heads off and/or pulling a piston.
Second opinion time? Talk with Andrew of Andrewtech fame?
That's a ton of loot to go through on a motor.
I'm also wondering how they figured that out without popping the heads off and/or pulling a piston.
Second opinion time? Talk with Andrew of Andrewtech fame?
That's a ton of loot to go through on a motor.
colin
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- drwrx
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Did Don Beyer do a compression check or leak down?
If so, do you have those #s?
Seriously, that would be the first thing to do.
If so, do you have those #s?
Seriously, that would be the first thing to do.
- Libra Monkee
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
The good doctor hit it right on the head. They did a leakdown test. The results (verbatim) are:drwrx wrote:Did Don Beyer do a compression check or leak down?
If so, do you have those #s?
Seriously, that would be the first thing to do.
Code: Select all
UPON INSPECTION TECHNICIAN FOUND EXCESSIVE LEAKDOWN ON CYLINDER #4. TECHNICIAN PERFORMED A CYLINDER LEAKDOWN TEST ON ENGINE:
CYL#1 - 12%
CYL#2 - 5%
CYL#3 - 20%
CYL#4 - 80%!!!
TECHINICIAN FOUND AIR LEAKAGE FROM CRANKCASE INDICATING THE THE VEHICLE HAS BROKEN RINGLANDS ON CYL#4 AND MOST LIKELY CYL#3 AS WELL. VEHICLE IS EQUIPPED WITH AN AFTERMARKET INTAKE. AND MANUAL BOOST CONTROLLER. BROKEN RINGLANDS ARE NOT A MATTER FOR WARRANTY. APPROXIMATE COST TO REPLACE SHORT BLOCK IS $5800
And I'm out of whiskey.
I drink your milkshake
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- Mr Kleen
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
you've got an MBC? what was it set to?
- zaxrex
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
If the hardware that came with the UTEC was used, that is an auxiliary boost controller, not an MBC. The UTEC is still controlling the boost, but the bleed valve is required to manage the BCSV at higher pressures that it would normally see.
Or at least that is how it is on my UTEC... It might be a real MBC, but then the logging that we did showing the boost levels being adjusted would not support it.
Or at least that is how it is on my UTEC... It might be a real MBC, but then the logging that we did showing the boost levels being adjusted would not support it.
Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like stripping your gears
- drwrx
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Yep, it does sound like a broken ringland, however, $5,800 is way too much.
If it is "just the rings," a new shortblock is NOT required. But an inspection of the cylinder walls will be required to verify.
I think a call to AR Fab or AndrewTech may be in order.
If it is "just the rings," a new shortblock is NOT required. But an inspection of the cylinder walls will be required to verify.
I think a call to AR Fab or AndrewTech may be in order.
- snaab
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
THIS! I was in the middle of explaining your predicament to someone when I stopped myself and said, "Wait a minute... what's the likelihood of cracked ring land destroying the whole damn block?" Make the investment to have the engine torn down and inspected. You could get out of this with just new pistons.drwrx wrote:If it is "just the rings," a new shortblock is NOT required. But an inspection of the cylinder walls will be required to verify.
I'm sure it's stressful, but you'll get through this, and you'll be glad you took the time to figure it out.
edit: Smartass RJ says, "I have carbon build-up. NEW BLOCK."
RJ
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
This man speaks truth. Definitely check with another shop. There's no way it's that much money to fix properly.snaab wrote:THIS! I was in the middle of explaining your predicament to someone when I stopped myself and said, "Wait a minute... what's the likelihood of cracked ring land destroying the whole damn block?" Make the investment to have the engine torn down and inspected. You could get out of this with just new pistons.drwrx wrote:If it is "just the rings," a new shortblock is NOT required. But an inspection of the cylinder walls will be required to verify.
I'm sure it's stressful, but you'll get through this, and you'll be glad you took the time to figure it out.
Spoken as only a miata owner can do. Oh I miss the days of sucking up a can of decarbonizer in the Miata and then driving through town like I was spy hunter...snaab wrote: edit: Smartass RJ says, "I have carbon build-up. NEW BLOCK."
colin
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- Libra Monkee
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Wow, front page even.
I void warranties.
AR Fab High Performance Short Blocks
* Street Fighter Series starting at $2700
* Street Fighter RECON Series starting at $2850
* Ultimate Fighter Packages starting at $7750
Most packages are in stock and can ship the next business day.
I void warranties.
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
I assume that includes pistons and rings.
- Sabre
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Hey Chuck, sorry to have heard this yesterday. I've had great luck with my engine from Ar FAb (50k and still running strong). The prices quoted do not include labor IIRC. For that money though, you will come away with a NICE block. Definitely give them a call and talk to them!
Sabre (Julian)
92.5% Stock 04 STI
Good choice putting $4,000 rims on your 1990 Honda Civic. That's like Betty White going out and getting her tits done.
92.5% Stock 04 STI
Good choice putting $4,000 rims on your 1990 Honda Civic. That's like Betty White going out and getting her tits done.
- Libra Monkee
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Also, what does BCSV stand for?
Libra Monkee- "Helping DCAWD meet its Equal Opportunity requirement since 2006."
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- Libra Monkee
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Well! According to this thread the ring lands are a rikki tikkin timebomb.
Remind me why I bought a Subaru?
Remind me why I bought a Subaru?
Libra Monkee- "Helping DCAWD meet its Equal Opportunity requirement since 2006."
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
That's not very happy...
I really need to quit neglecting mah poor toaster and get it a good road tune.
I'm really sorry about all this Chuck. I even told you to reset the ecu and see if the code returns. I thought for sure it was a set of plugs or a coilpack or something at worst.
I really need to quit neglecting mah poor toaster and get it a good road tune.
I'm really sorry about all this Chuck. I even told you to reset the ecu and see if the code returns. I thought for sure it was a set of plugs or a coilpack or something at worst.
colin
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i <3 teh 00ntz
a tank, a yammie, a spaceship
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- snaab
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
That's an enlightening read. There's so many tiny factors that can affect a car's reliability. Like the saying goes, a chain's only as strong as it's weakest like. At least you know what the issue it's. It'd be worse if you had a phantom problem, whose cause you can't isolate.Libra Monkee wrote:Well! According to this thread the ring lands are a rikki tikkin timebomb.
Remind me why I bought a Subaru?
RJ
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Re: Cylinder 4 Misfire
Would you like to borrow mine, we're essentially the same (vf series turbo, up, exhaust, TMIC) I have an intake, but that shouldn't make that big a difference, it is an SPT.complacent wrote:I really need to quit neglecting mah poor toaster and get it a good road tune.
Or, you and I (and Julian) the Tacktrix cable and Wideband could take a couple of hours and get that thing set-up right.
Chuck, I'm so sorry for you man. Yes, the 06-07 were notorious for bad ringlands. The stock ECU tends to run crazy lean. There are lots of threads with logs that have AFRs at 14:1 and 15:1 in the open loop / closed loop threshold.