All aboard the fail whale!

[avriette]

Our STI is in for its 22500 service. Mike at Beyer Alexandria gave us a Tribeca as a loaner. It's new, only 3,000 miles on it. Man, I like this car a lot. It's really, really comfy. It's got all the normal goodies like heated leather seats, seat memory, and a really spacious cabin. To illustrate this, I drive with the seat all the way back in the STI, and it's hard to squeeze even children in behind the seat. With the Tribeca, I have the seat most of the way back (it's so big that I actually bring the seat forward a couple inches from full-back), and there is just enormous room in the rear seat. Plenty enough for full size adults and I think I'd even fit in that space.

The electronics are kinda bling-y in that it has a big LCD display in the center of the dash that has a sort of "startup animation" that's useless. However, it takes mp3 cd's, is available it an ipod connector, has a real "line in" connection, so I can even run music off my blackberry to it.

It's got a very different feeling to it, engine-wise. It's got a full litre more cubes, and it has great torque at idle (it spooked me at first how much it jumped if you weren't ginger with the throttle). From 1000 to 2500rpm, you'd think it was going to rocket all the way to redline. However, it just goes limp around 3500rpm. It almost feels like it isn't getting enough air. I think with a better intake manifold, you could get better high-end response, but you'd probably lose some of that really low down torque that makes it feel quick. It's fast enough that I don't feel in danger on the road (when we used to rent Zipcars, we were terrified in the Jettas because you just couldn't get up to freeway speed in the length of an onramp).

The steering is much tighter than the STI's, the radius is better, and it is almost unstable in how responsive it is. When you're driving it on the freeway, it kind of hunts around a bit, so you have to keep your eye on it.

Mike said that what it really needed was a supercharger. I tend to agree. There's not much room under the hood for a turbo and an intercooler, but a simple 6-7lbs of boost on a roots blower would do great things for the vehicle. The other thing that would be nice is a little freer exhaust, so you could tell it was a boxer. I bet just running 2.5" all the way back to two reasonable mufflers would make it sound great, and give you a bit more of that high end power it needs.

Despite the fact that it doesn't perform very well (well, it's not fast, but it is adequate), it still only gets 14-16mpg, which is what we get in the STI. This is probably because the thing is just so big and heavy, and the extra litre capacity. Sandy said, "maybe if it came in a hybrid?" But of course, then it would be even slower and I'd want it less. The big benefit is gas is cheaper, since it only needs regular.

Our only real comparison in these newish sub-SUV-sized "trucks" is a Cayenne we looked at a while back (before we found out that they can go used for $65k+!). Inside, the Tribeca feels just as nice. It looks fantastic, and while it's not a Porsche, it's a hell of a deal if you don't mind the speed issue.

Anyhow, not likely we'll trade in an STI for one, but we actually had a discussion about it: if we had two bikes and the Tribeca, we could go riding together and have the "fast" vehicle, and the Tribeca could tow two bikes to wherever we wanted to ride. It would fit a bunch of our friends comfortably, or like Colin says, four friends and four wheels and tires. That is definitely win.

[chicken n waffles]

but it's a tribeca...

[Sabre]

Mike said that what it really needed was a supercharger. I tend to agree. There's not much room under the hood for a turbo and an intercooler, but a simple 6-7lbs of boost on a roots blower would do great things for the vehicle. The other thing that would be nice is a little freer exhaust, so you could tell it was a boxer. I bet just running 2.5" all the way back to two reasonable mufflers would make it sound great, and give you a bit more of that high end power it needs.

Funny you should say that, it has been done The results were ok, but not that spectacular (not saying I wouldn't do it though!)

* 320 HP (Flywheel) (stock 250 HP)
* 270 Lb-Ft (Flywheel) stock (219 lb-ft)

That was on the 3.3l engine, the 3.6 would be more interesting. It has dual avcs, but people have said "the 3.6 is a nasty stroker design that has a whack offset rod design so that the block didn't have to get wider." I haven't been able to find the actual numbers to confirm this though :/

[avriette]

Funny you should say that, it has been done The results were ok, but not that spectacular (not saying I wouldn't do it though!)

* 320 HP (Flywheel) (stock 250 HP)
* 270 Lb-Ft (Flywheel) stock (219 lb-ft)

That was on the 3.3l engine, the 3.6 would be more interesting. It has dual avcs, but people have said "the 3.6 is a nasty stroker design that has a whack offset rod design so that the block didn't have to get wider." I haven't been able to find the actual numbers to confirm this though :/

It would need more than 320hp to motivate that car to reasonable levels. Well, levels I'd like. I like that they've brought the torque up, and if you look at the map, it's pretty flat. It's surprising how cramped that engine bay is, given how big the car is. Two turbos would absolutely rock on that car, but then it would probably cost as much as your average Cayenne, and that's just not Subaru's market. I don't think anything in that car is capable of supporting that much power, either. Kinda too bad.

And Ben, sure, it's a Tribeca, but the new one is a lot less ugly than the original one. I'm not saying I like it, but it's not quite as bad, and the inside of the car is wonderful.

[Cereb Daithi]

i drive tirbecas all day long... and you know what? They have REALLY grown on me. I used to hate them, and I'm still not a fanboi of them, but they start to make some sense. They're comfortable cruisers. Be warned though. While the 2nd row of seats are nice and roomy... if you get the 3rd row, they're a joke. Seriously you have NO room in the back. maybe 2 inches at most if the seats are the right way. That being said. I do like the feel of it. With the Nav unit that big display feel less out of place. At nighttime the red accent lights actually give it a nice feel and generally I like the layout of the gauges. At first I didn't like where they placed gas and engine temp, but then I thought, this isn't a performance car. How often do you need to be staring at them? The only thing I'd like for them to change is the shifter feels weird and it could use some more HP.

All in all... if I needed an SUV.. I'd look into a tribeca.

[avriette]

At first I didn't like where they placed gas and engine temp, but then I thought, this isn't a performance car. How often do you need to be staring at them? The only thing I'd like for them to change is the shifter feels weird and it could use some more HP.

As we returned the Whale today, I was going to add that last comment. You can't see the fuel gauge or the water temp gauge at all with your hands on the wheel, due to their placement behind the steering wheel to either side of the speedo and tach.

And, while it's not a performance car, I can think of one reason to look at the water temp gauge. I never turn the heater on until I'm sure the water is hot, or you get a buncha cold air in your face. It was low forties this morning, and I had to search for the water gauge before realizing it was right in front of me (behind my left hand).

The other thing is none of the gauges are lit even a little unless the headlights are on (well, except the speedo and tach). In the STI, they're all red, all the time. Our garage is dark, and I never realize our lights aren't on until Sandy tells me (with the DRLs and HIDs, it's hard to notice). In the Tribeca, all those gauges are dark, and I wind up searching for the shifter (it's not where I expect it), and even the lights for "P N R D" are not lit, so I have a hard time finding the "gear" I want the slushbox in. I suppose I could turn my lights on in the garage, but I'd have to turn them off again in twenty seconds.

But mostly, with the Tribeca, it's little things that bother me. Overall, it would be a welcome second car, provided the STI was paid off. I would hate to have a note on both cars unless the Tribeca was "worth having fun in." (and I don't mean in the back seat)

[chicken n waffles]

i'd take a toaster over the tribeca (or any suv), especially with that kind of fuel mileage STOCK.

at least with the toaster i could still pretend to be in the sti with a few bolt-on parts.

[Cereb Daithi]

When I was heading to SEMA we used a Tribeca to transport our studio out of LA.... we were bookin it through the desert at 90-100mph averaging 24mpg. Doesn't sound like terrible gas mileage to me.

(but then again how often do you do that...)

[06STIffy]

<----Just traded in STI for Tribeca

[sirwilliam]

Mike said that what it really needed was a supercharger. I tend to agree. There's not much room under the hood for a turbo and an intercooler, but a simple 6-7lbs of boost on a roots blower would do great things for the vehicle. The other thing that would be nice is a little freer exhaust, so you could tell it was a boxer. I bet just running 2.5" all the way back to two reasonable mufflers would make it sound great, and give you a bit more of that high end power it needs.

Yeah, the new '08 definitely caught my eye and I agree. If it had 350-400hp w/ matching torque, it would be a blast! I doubt there will be any non- prototype blowers developed for it, though.

[avriette]

When I was heading to SEMA we used a Tribeca to transport our studio out of LA.... we were bookin it through the desert at 90-100mph averaging 24mpg. Doesn't sound like terrible gas mileage to me.

(but then again how often do you do that...)

I drove 150 miles through Arlington and a tiny bit of 66. We got 16 mpg consistently, and were filling the tank in 4-gallon intervals (not wanting to buy Don Beyer a full tank of gas). The STI gets only slightly worse mpg. I don't know what sort of mileage the car gets on the freeway, because I don't know whether it's got four or three gears in the automatic. If it's got four, it's probably got a lower RPM at 65mph than the STI has (which is pretty high strung), which would lead to higher mileage. Otherwise, around town, it's a wash. The much larger displacement engine accounts for this. The time we turbo owners spend in boost (if you have 1 bar of boost at WOT, you are essentially operating at double displacement, provided you can run at stoichiometric) most likely accounts for the lack of displacement when describing the lack of a difference between the NA 3.6 and the turbo 2.5. My guess is the 2.0 would fare better, but I've never had the pleasure.

I will say that I certainly missed it this morning, as I woke up more than a little hung over, probably with a non-zero BAC, and had to get into a cramped, cold car, with hard, bolstered seats, and a transmission I had to pay attention to rather than one that just did its job.

There's just no way to justify a "hangover car" economically. It's very comfortable, and the toaster is only marginally bigger than the STI (and much of this, I think, is because the seats are a little further back, and they're not bolstered quite as aggressively as the STI's). To tote around larvae and dogs, I think the Tribeca is the better bet, compared to the toaster (and I really like Colin's toaster!).

The performance is pretty bad, compared to the rest of Subaru's line, considering the LGT, the WRX and STI, and the FXT. I don't see any reason Subaru couldn't produce a Tribeca XT or GT or whatever, that had 300hp in naturally aspirated form, up from the normal 250hp or so. They could do so without losing torque by having variable-geometry intake runners and/or variable valve timing and a free-flowing exhaust. It would feel and sound better, and while it would "compete" with the FXT, it would have to cost something like $36-42k, rather than the FXT, which is about $32k with all the options. I do think that Subaru could sell such a car, although they'd be about as rare as FXT's, which you see, but not a whole lot of them. I'd certainly like to "graduate" to a 300+hp Tribeca from the STI when it's paid off (and we're in our late 30's).

I've only got one other item to reduce the fail in the whale, and that's the available beer cooler you can get in the Tribeca. Sure, you could add one to your toaster, but would it say Subaru on it?

(and CD: I'd never get the 7-passenger. The Tribeca is strictly a small SUV, barely bigger than a toaster, and not big enough for more than five full-size adults. With kidlets, this changes)

[chicken n waffles]

I will say that I certainly missed it this morning, as I woke up more than a little hung over, probably with a non-zero BAC, and had to get into a cramped, cold car, with hard, bolstered seats, and a transmission I had to pay attention to rather than one that just did its job.

it's funny you mention this, because i've always said that the sti is the WORST car to drive with a hangover. between the bolstered, bouncy seats, the rough suspension, and the lack of smoothness in the balls-to-the-wall tranny, the car hates hungover pilots. i've had to stop and get out once or twice during those rougher post-drunken dazes.