Diesel: pro's & con's

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WRXWagon2112
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Post by WRXWagon2112 »

ElZorro wrote:If it came down to it - I'd say generate all of our power from renewable (solar, hydro, thermo, etc) or nuclear sources. Run as much as we can as electrical vehicles. For applications where electric doesnt work (military primarily) we maintain diesel. Yes, this would put a hurt on the power grid (as Darrin pointed out), but that something that we can fix - build more wires.
^^ Nice post, Jason!

As for where that electricity will come from, I'm encouraged by this. Unfortunately, it's not yet available in the U.S. and (after the currency exchange) it costs about $50K each. And won't give you any power if there's no wind.
The quietrevolution (QR) was designed in response to increasing demand for wind turbines that work well in the urban environment, where wind speeds are lower and wind directions change frequently.

The elegant helical (twisted) design of QR ensures a robust performance even in turbulent winds. It is also responsible for virtually eliminating all noise and vibration.

At five metres high and three metres in diameter, it is compact and easy to integrate, and with just one moving part, maintenance can be limited to an annual inspection.
Let's say you live someplace windy - perhaps the Outer Banks of NC. You could have an electric car and charge it up without accessing the national power grid. Unfortunately you still have the problem of the batteries. They are an absolute environmental nightmare to produce. And since they don't last forever, they are an even bigger nightmare to dispose of.

--Alan
GaToR
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Post by GaToR »

Article by popular mechanics on clean diesel technology. Way too much to cut and paste, but two very interesting factoids.
popular mechanics wrote:But diesel has outsize potential even without these models. According to the EPA, if 33 percent of U.S. drivers switched to diesel vehicles, the country would reduce its oil consumption by about 1.5 million barrels a day, cutting oil imports by more than 10 percent. The agency’s Oge, for one, is optimistic that the technology will leave behind its dirty old image and win a whole new generation of fans. “This is going to be remembered as the decade when we transformed diesel.”
:shock:
popular mechanics wrote:Federal renewable-fuel policy is one factor that seems destined to push diesel prices higher. If so, it will be an unintended consequence of legislation that aims to raise production of ethanol from 4.7 billion gallons in 2007 to 7.5 billion in 2012. That’s because the machinery required to grow and harvest the corn that’s made into ethanol runs on … you guessed it, diesel. “I wouldn’t go so far as to predict shortages,” Hazle says. “But I can’t say it’s going to be a cheap fuel.”
This is a sad observation that proves Bob Lutz (and you, Michal) potentially correct on future supplies.

article
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ElZorro
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Post by ElZorro »

Umm, almost all John Deere tractors can run on biodiesel... http://www.deere.com/en_US/rg/infocente ... er&tm=jdps
Jason "El Zorro" Fox
'17 Subaru Forester 2.0XT
DCAWD - old coots in fast scoots.
GaToR
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Post by GaToR »

ElZorro wrote:Umm, almost all John Deere tractors can run on biodiesel... http://www.deere.com/en_US/rg/infocente ... er&tm=jdps
True, I just hate the fact that in this country, a significant amount of diesel, biodiesel, or a combination of both, is going to go into ethanol production rather than powering diesel cars at 2x the mileage. Since that supply chain has like 11teen extra steps in it, it will just jack the price for gas/ethanol/diesel/biodiesel up simultaneously.
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ElZorro
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Post by ElZorro »

And a story today:
http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/02/studies-say-bio.html wrote:Studies Say Biofuels Worse Than Gasoline
By Brandon Keim EmailFebruary 08, 2008 | 11:19:56 AMCategories: Energy, Government, Plants

Biofuelcover When all relevant factors are accounted for, biofuels produce more greenhouse gas emissions than fossil fuels.

So conclude two studies published yesterday in Science, adding to a growing body of research suggesting that crop-based fuels, once hailed as a clean answer to oil, are not a magic green bullet.

Biofuels seemed so promising at first -- what could be cleaner than running our cars and factories on plants? But early prognostications were a bit thin on details. They didn't always account for the energy that would be needed to grow, harvest and refine the fuels. Most importantly, they didn't consider that greenhouse gas-gobbling vegetation would need to be cleared for fuel crops -- or, if these were planted on existing pastures, that new fields would be cleared to make space for displaced food crops.

Put these factors in the equation, and biofuels don't do much good at all. The first study, led by Princton University environmental law researcher Timothy Searchinger, found that replacing fossil fuels with corn-based ethanol -- the darling of the U.S. biofuel industry -- would double greenhouse gas emissions for the next thirty years. Even switchgrass, seen as a far more efficient alternative, would produce a 50% bump in emissions.

Over time, as the incremental sequestration of CO2 in their roots matched the CO2 once stored by cleared vegetation, using biofuels probably would cut emissions -- but that could take decades. And the second study, authored by Nature Conservancy researchers, pegged that timetable at the level of centuries.

A bright spot, though: the Nature Conservancy said crops grown on degraded farmland that couldn't support food crops could be beneficial, as could biofuels made from agricultural waste.

An argument could be made that neither of the studies accounted for anticipated advances in fuel crop efficiency, but the drawbacks described by the studies are so massive that the conclusions would likely hold.

Whether policymakers will heed biofuel cautionaries, of which these studies are merely the latest, remains to be seen. Many countries and agrobusiness companies have already invested heavily in biofuels, and capital keeps pouring in. Biofuels have gone mainstream.

But opposition is going mainstream, too: the United Nations has set up a committee to evaluate biofuel sustainability, and the New York Times reports that leading environmental biologists are pushing President Bush and House of Representatives head Nancy Pelosi to reform biofuel policies.

If we really do have Science Debate 2008, I'd love to see the candidates -- especially Barack Obama -- grilled on this.

Use of U.S. Croplands for Biofuels Increases Greenhouse Gases Through Emissions from Land Use Change

Land Clearing and the Biofuel Carbon Debt

Image: Detail from Biofuels: towards a greener and secure energy future

See Also:

* Can't See the Forest for the Biofuels
* Don't Pick Biofuel Winners Before the Race Starts
* The Best Way to Judge a Biofuel
* Making Deforestation Unprofitable is Key to Bali Success
* Some Biofuels Are Better Than Others
Jason "El Zorro" Fox
'17 Subaru Forester 2.0XT
DCAWD - old coots in fast scoots.
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