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Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:20 pm
by Sabre
Funny you should bring that up, I was about to post this :)

AMD Starts Shipping "Bulldozer" CPUs
AMD announced that the initial production of the world’s first 16-core x86 processor, codenamed “Interlagos” (Opteron Series) began in August, with shipments now underway to customers (OEM customers). The Opteron is compatible with existing AMD Opteron 6100 Series platforms and will be available to partner systems by Q4 this year. The Opteron processors are built on 32nm process technology, utilizing either 8, 12, or 16 cores (model dependent), quad-channel DDR3 memory controller, up to 16MB of L3 cache, and four HyperTransport links.
Great news for the server market, but it looks like the consumers are going to have to wait a little while longer :(

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:34 pm
by Sabre
Updates :)

AMD spills secret to World Record clock speed
On August 31, a team of AMD-sponsored overclockers cranked a Bulldozer-based AMD FX processor up to an unearthly 8.429GHz, setting a new world record. This week, The Reg sat down with the leader of that processor-torturing team to find out exactly how they did it.
AMD FX Series Processors Hit Pre-Order
Model Cores Threads Frequency Turbo Frequency L2 cache L3 cache TDP Price
FX-Series FX-6100 6 6 3.3 GHz 3.9 GHz 6 MB 8 MB 95 Watt $188.32
FX-Series FX-8120 8 8 3.1 GHz 4 GHz 8 MB 8 MB 125 Watt $221.73
FX-Series FX-8150 8 8 3.6 GHz 4.2 GHz 8 MB 8 MB 125 Watt $266.28
:bowd: :nana: :nana: :nana:

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:54 pm
by complacent
while impressive, that is some ridiculous cooling... liquid helium?!? really?!?

i bet you can overclock the piss out of anything when you get the temperature within ten degrees of zero on the kelvin scale...

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:59 pm
by Sabre
Actually, they guys who did it talked about the limits of Intel and even the new Sandy Bridge architecture. Apparently, you can't get anywhere close to that with an Intel.
From what he told us, he wouldn't be as happy working at Intel. In addition to the fact that he's encouraged to do "neat, risky things" at AMD, he told us that "It's fairly common knowledge that when we did this beyond–liquid nitrogen stuff with Phenom II, that other processors would cold-bug out. So that's one of the things that's cool and distinguished: that we can actually do these experiments with these CPUs."

More-recent Intel chips were beginning to exhibit fewer cold bugs, he told us. But he says Sandy Bridge does not scale particularly well with cold. "You'll see the top frequencies in Sandy Bridge in the fives – it does not have this remarkable ability to scale with cold as an attribute of its design."

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:26 pm
by Sabre
Leaked benchmarks
Looks ok...

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 5:50 pm
by scheherazade
It's about as good as where it's priced ... between the 2500 and 2600.

I think BD is a perfectly good option for the mid-range crowd - if you're not overclocking (because the 2500k or 2600k OC'd tro 5+ghz is a friggin' beast).

Although, I'm waiting to see what the consensus is on BD OCing before I make that opinion 'firm'. (especially as it pertains to non-synthetics)

-scheherazade

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 8:40 pm
by Sabre
^^ Agreed. I was really hoping for "blow SB out of the water" performance, but if they hit the right price points, it could be a viable option for some. I guess we really need to wait till the official release of the benchmarks...

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:05 pm
by Sabre
And sadly, it looks like it isn't what most of us (ok, maybe just me) were hoping for. I REALLY am hoping they up their game soon :(

Slashdot link with links to most of the reviews.
AMD has finally delivered what it has promised for years, Bulldozer. It was four long years ago that we first talked to you about Bulldozer. What AMD brought to market, and what it talked about four years ago are two very different things. There is no denying that somewhere in the last four years the train fully left the tracks. I can't lie, I have thought more than once while going through all the data that AMD might have been better off concentrating on a successful die shrink and clock scaling of its current flagship desktop processors rather than spending the money on Bulldozer development.
...
AMD has delivered what will be a disappointment to many. The Intel fanboys have won this round. There just isn't any way around it. AMD fans, get ready to eat crow. If you expected something to outshine Sandy Bridge in terms of performance overall, it is just not there.
...
When you look at how much power the enthusiast's overclocked Bulldozer system will chew through under those multithreaded workloads, you have to realize just how much wattage you are giving up to not have an Intel processor. (Yes, we know some of you are brand loyalists.)
...
Is there any burning reason as to why you should buy AMD's $200 chip rather than Intel's $200 chip? I really can't give you one. The Bulldozer is harder to overclock for the most part and surely more picky about its voltages than Intel's Sandy Bridge. Bulldozer is going to take a heavier cooling solution than Sandy Bridge.
For the die-hard AMD fans that have been waiting for this day since the company first started hinting at Bulldozer, the performance exhibited by this first batch of FX series processors is probably somewhat puzzling. This was supposed to be the architecture that propelled AMD back into a strong, competitive position versus Intel’s desktop processors. Alas, that is obviously not the case. The FX-8150 is very competitive with Intel’s upper-mainstream Core i5 processors, but the Core i7 remains the ultimate performance champion. No if, ands, or buts about it.
Ouch. I was really hoping that it would fare better :(

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:00 pm
by complacent
ouch... that's pretty damning. bummer. :(

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:45 pm
by Raven
I think it's just time to accept that AMD just can't compete. The only reason they were good a few years ago is because Intel screwed the pooch with its NetBurst architecture.

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:12 pm
by scheherazade
To be fair, it's not like it's much slower.

Sure, it is beaten in synthetics, but typical practical tests show basically similar performance.

And even though AMD's high-end line is tied with Intel's new 'merely mid-range' parts - Intel's [now aging x58] high-end line is also tied with their own new mid-range parts.

So basically, everything is a draw (outside of synthetics), until the SB-E platform comes out.

Even with SB-E, all the leaked benchmarks of SB-E show only a minor increase per clock versus SB, and clocks are barely higher than SB.
So SB-E will mostly be about the extra cores (which will not be insignificant, but won't change things much for single-threaded benchmarks).

Basically, yeah, BD is slower than SB - but in most cases it's 'meh'.
So in regards to "why buy a $200 AMD when you can buy a $200 Intel", you can also say the same thing vice-versa, and it's still valid.

*UNLESS you do some niche stuff that's heavily reflected in the synthetics.

I've been looking to upgrade for a little while now. Mostly because I'm a chronic upgrader and I'm getting the itch again.
It's been a while since I got my i7 930 - BUT, when I look at my 930 overclocked versus the latest intel offerings also overclocked, there's hardly any difference in performance, and even less difference in practical tests.
It's like it's all the friggin' same. I can't even upgrade. There's no point in replacing mobo+cpu for +10% if I'm lucky.

I do like AMD's motherboards.
You can get a board with full sata6gig, a crap ton of x16's, and a good complement of onboard features, for a really good price.
They're really way ahead of Intel's at this time.
If only you could put an Intel chip in an AMD board.

-scheherazade

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 4:46 pm
by Sabre
Toms Hardware
This announcement will unveil the board’s and Rory Read’s new business strategy for AMD and reveal how the company will be competing in a quickly reshaping processor market. The content of that announcement will have to be at least as shocking as the clean sweep through its executive ranks that we have been witnessing for almost a year.
...
This may be very subjective, but I sense that AMD has, on some levels, a growing credibility issue. Sure, Fusion has had considerable success, AMD has captured market share from Intel in the mobile segment, and I am hearing very confident notes from AMD staff that Trinity is something to anticipate. However, if we are honest, AMD’s technology is way too average today on too many levels. What AMD needs is a true flagship product in its core CPU space – a technology that carries the industry mindshare for an entire company.

Intel has those flagship products, which may not bring in revenues on a product level, but they pay for themselves 1,000 times over in perception creation and marketing. Nvidia is building those products within its Tegra platform and has clearly stated its intentions to include in each product generation at least one feature that comes as a complete surprise to its rivals – such as the fifth power saving core in Kal-El. Such surprises, if executed correctly, can create product and market leadership.

AMD made an attempt to devise such a product with the most recent FX-8150 but largely failed to capture the perception of a flagship product. The pitch greatly represents a similar approach as the 2006 Quad FX, which consisted of two dual-core CPUs that created one quad-core system. It did not offer any performance advantages over a dual-core system and was extremely power hungry.

AMD will need an unquestioned flagship product to support its overall product credibility.
Not directly related to this thread, but I think after the failure of Bulldozers initial release as being off the charts good, things needed to be shaken up.

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:32 pm
by complacent
well, this wasn't very happy.

the article can be summed up by the second to last paragraph -
After the poor desktop performance, the possibility still existed that the Bulldozer architecture would start to make sense once we could see the server performance. Now the benchmarks have arrived, AMD's perseverance with Bulldozer is bordering on the incomprehensible. There's just no upside to the decisions AMD has made. All of which raises a question: why did AMD go this route? The company must have known about the weak single-threaded performance and the detrimental effect this would have in real-world applications long before the product actually shipped, so why stick with it? Perhaps AMD's anticipation of high clock speeds caused the company to stick with the design, and there's still a possibility that it might one day attain those clock speeds—but we've seen AMD's arch-competitor, Intel, make a similar gamble with the Pentium 4, and for Intel, it never really paid off.
:cry:

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:19 pm
by Sabre
Ouch. I really had high hopes, but it looks like I'll be sticking with my i7 for now!

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:49 pm
by Sabre
Hot Hardware
Currently, the performance of AMD Bulldozer CPUs is slower than expected. This behavior occurs because the threading logic in Windows 7 and in Windows Server 2008 R2 is not optimized to use the Simultaneous Multithreading (SMT) scheduling feature. This feature was introduced in the Bulldozer family of AMD CPUs," Microsoft explained in a support article.
Interesting. It makes perfect sense. Now to see if it really makes that big a difference!

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:40 pm
by Raven
I'm really close to buying one of these in quad core form. I can get a pretty stupid fast AMD CPU for not much money.

Re: Bulldozer info :)

Posted: Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:35 pm
by Sabre
Make sure to check out MicroCenters prices. I have historically found them to be cheaper than anyone (including Newegg).
For instance:
FX4100
Newegg: 119
MicroCenter: 109

FX8150
Newegg: 269
MicroCenter: 259