Cobb AP vs Open-Source solution

jamapor · Post by **jamapor** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:13 am

I'm a newbie. Somebody woo me with their knowledge... (I'm looking at you here DRWRX)

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 6:17 am

Cobb AP v.1 (b/c v.2 is damn expensive and ST is not compatible w/ v.2) w/ ST software in conjunction w/ Enginuity and Tatrix Cable FTW!!!!

chicken n waffles · Post by **chicken n waffles** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:06 am

^ that, plus RESEARCH should do ya just right.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 9:28 am

that's like asking if you should buy a Miata or a Jeep Wrangler: both are small convertibles but they are VERY different animals.

I got an AP a few years ago and have been very happy with it. V2 looks very slick but V1 is keeping Betty happy, so I'm happy.

cheshirecat · Post by **cheshirecat** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:51 am

Open source FTW but has nothing to do with linux vs windows

Cobb FTW if you have the money and don't have a desire to learn to tune yourself....or the means to

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 11:52 am

cheshirecat wrote:Cobb FTW if you have the money and don't have a desire to learn to tune yourself....or the means to

the V1 AP should be going down in price now that the V2 is out; and I have no desire to "learn to tune" on my one and only daily driver.

cheshirecat · Post by **cheshirecat** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 1:47 pm

It's not nearly as difficult as you might think....

This isn't installing a new turbo and supporting mods and then "retuning" everything...that is an involved process

For instance, in the stock wrx the boost maps can be safely changed (without modifying the fuel maps) to ~17psi and taper back a bit. The stock boost maps run ~6psi before 3k rpm and is quite rich....

Do a little research, save a couple hundred dollars.....

Just IMHO...I certainly have an understanding of not wanting to go into uncharted territory with your "one and only". I've been there in a bad way before (different car)....

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:00 pm

Let's be completely clear about this.

The "open source" tuning software like ECUFlash or Enginuity have nearly all the functionality of the Cobb or ECUTec approaches but you absolutely "need" to know what your doing. Not only in "basic" tuning but also how to read logs and understand MAF signals as well as a keen understanding of how the ECU functions and interacts with the software and how to trouble shoot the many software and hardware issues that can and do arise. An intergrated wideband o2 sensor is also a must. The LM-1 digital being a good choice.

If your even considering this route do a lot research. My 6 hour stint with Big Al was a huge eye opener on the many ways to "skin a cat." And while I am eventually going to go this route, I am going to be very cautious with my approach.

If you have any reservations with the thought of reflashing (and potentially killing both your ECU and engine) than don't, and go with the Cobb.

cheshirecat · Post by **cheshirecat** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 2:15 pm

/agreed

However, I a disagree on this point. Stg 1 tuning is a cake walk. If you were driving around with Big Al, i'm sure that you were quite a ways beyond that.....

Also, if he made it look easy he wouldn't have your money....especially on just a street tune....

don't believe me? Call Colby...

The LM-1 digital being a good choice

LC-1 + XD-16 FTW!

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Wed Mar 07, 2007 3:00 pm

cheshirecat wrote:Stg 1 tuning is a cake walk.

I would probably agree with that. If your just dealing with AFRs and timing it makes things much easier.

cheshirecat wrote:If you were driving around with Big Al, i'm sure that you were quite a ways beyond that.....

Big Al called my tune "one of the most challenging tunes I have had in years." With the larger low impedance injectors, very weird MAF readings, AFRs that would go from very lean to very rich very quickly, as well as boost responce that was quicker than expected there were some significant hurdles to overcome.

cheshirecat wrote:LC-1 + XD-16 FTW!

That's a good set-up as well. I've just never been sold on a permanent AFR gauge. If you can get your AFRs correct with a good tune, why bother with an extra gauge. And it forces you to keep a wideband o2 sensor plugged in all the time.

jamapor · Post by **jamapor** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:59 am

while i know about restoring antique cars, i know absolutely 0 about tuning including fuel mappings/boost blah blah blah

i think i'm going to take drwrx's solution and go with the cobb initially and learn a bunch more about tuning. i'll probably eventually go open-source when i have a LOT more knowledge of the components

thanks everybody for the info so far =) ... feel free to shed some more light cause i'm still up for any suggestions

chicken n waffles · Post by **chicken n waffles** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 6:12 am

as per the norm, drwrx has dropped the knowledge bomb and we are all left standing around, nodding our heads in agreement.

i vote cobb. but i know little to nothing about tuning. the folks at cobb have done the brainwork for me

. you could also read up on a utec but the installation is a little more involved. not much though.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:29 am

jamapor wrote:while i know about restoring antique cars, i know absolutely 0 about tuning including fuel mappings/boost blah blah blah

i think i'm going to take drwrx's solution and go with the cobb initially and learn a bunch more about tuning. i'll probably eventually go open-source when i have a LOT more knowledge of the components

a sound decision IMHO. no reason to jump into the deep end right away; ease into it. you'll pick up things quickly i'm sure.

cheshirecat · Post by **cheshirecat** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:17 am

I like the deepend, head first...

Best of luck, Cobb rocks for sure....

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:52 am

You should know that if you go the Cobb Accessport and you decide later to use an open source EM that you will still be able to read, edit and flash changes with EcuFlash when an Accessport version 1 is still married to the ECU, regardless of whether the current map is a Protuner custom tune or an off-the-shelf Cobb map. However, EcuFlash cannot download the real-time maps loaded by the Accessport. Also, with the introduction of the Accessport version 2, Cobb has "locked out" EcuFlash from reading/writing similar to what EcuTek did (unless the installer left it unlocked for you). But in most cases, you can download and edit your Ecutek flashed rom without a problem. Because Enginuity and EcuFlash will only change the values that you edited and not the whole image, it will typically not overwrite the Ecutek license or additional functionality.

DCAWD.com

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