UTEC vs. Cobb

Osiros · Post by **Osiros** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 5:59 pm

Ok - before you hit me with the standard "one can be tuned, the other can't be" I want you to get your REAL arguments ready. Here's the situation - the debate going on in my head is this:

Option 1: Do things piece by piece and get UP, downpipe, and exhaust then UTEC and install and deal with tuning - granted - help is readily available, but...............

Option 2: Just say fook it and pick up everything as a Cobb Stage 2. Turboback exhaust and Accessport for 1700 plus gaskets and such. In the end it's an "out of the box, onto the car" solution....granted....at a bit of a higher level of expense.

How much of a difference is there, really, in the end between these two? Do I really want to or need to worry about getting my tuning so precise that I want to be able to whip out the laptop and change for atmospheric differences and such? Is there enough of a bonus in launch control, boost control, etc. to make the UTEC worth it.

The bottom line is that, in the end, my car is going to have exhaust and engine management. I want to make the best decision I can and the best way to do that is to give other people options and watch them fight it out.

So what do you think?

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Fri Jun 09, 2006 8:38 pm

don't buy Cobb's package unless you just want to spend the money. there are cheaper UP and DP options (used, among others).

we can talk about this all day. here are cliff notes: AP is set-and-forget; Utec is for the constant tinkerer.

I have an AP. let me know if you want to go for a ride sometime.

Post by **Sabre** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:00 am

one can be tuned

the other can't be

Post by **Sabre** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:04 am

Ok, now for my real post

Some things to consider about the UTEC:
- You might feel the transition from open to closed loop and vis versa.
- Major changes in altitude or temperature will require some fine tuning.
+ Very tunable and you have some people close by that can tune it.
+ Most of the members of DCAWD know it.

Some things to consider about the AP:
+Transition between open and closed loop should be minimal
+Changes in temp and altitude shouldn't affect it (DOUBLE CHECK THIS!)
- Not tunable by yourself without additional costs

I can't think of any others off of the top of my head, but it's a start

Post by **complacent** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 1:14 am

he's a bugeye... the OLF/CLF fueling transition wasn't an issue until '04. Honest.

To be 100% honest - if you don't want to play around with your EM at all, just get teh cobb. I'm pretty sure that even MachV can protune now... Makes it a no-brainer for the suby luvrz who don't want to have to tweak all the time.

(just my opinion)

(peace sign)

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Sat Jun 10, 2006 8:37 am

Go w/ the AP you will be better off.

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Sun Jun 11, 2006 6:59 pm

I havn't had to tweek maps on the UTEC since the FMIC went on about 8 months ago.

If cost is your absolute limiter, I say go with the UTEC you can pick up everything 2'nd hand and you can download pre-made maps the get you going if it is not already tuned for what you got.

You can get a UTEC & exhaust for probably around $1-1.2K

hotsam · Post by **hotsam** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 2:02 pm

What are you planning on using the car for? How much do you want to spend?

Personally, I'd get an AccessPORT and a Stromung exhaust. And that's not because I'm a Cobb dealer, it's because I had a UTEC and I hated it.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:55 pm

In case you didn't know, Cobb is now selling their StreetTuner software for $199. I will be jumping on that bandwagon once my wife gives the okay

drwrx · Post by **drwrx** » Tue Jun 13, 2006 2:28 pm

I saw this post coming! First questions about exhaust, next . . . EM!

My thoughts are as follows:

If your trying to it all on the cheap, than UTEC will most likely be the way to go, as long as you can find it used. As long as you can stand they're stage 2 MAP and be happy with it. Or pay for the custom tune.

My personal opinon, after going through all that I have is . . . buy the Cobb! It hides the nefarious rear o2 cat inefficienctcy code which is a bane to all of us come emissions time. And if you need custom tuning Mach V and a few others can do it.

Unless your a "tinker with your MAPs" kind of guy, I would say the Cobb is the choice du jour.

Osiros · Post by **Osiros** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:51 pm

Thanks all for the input. Oddly I hadn't seen any emails telling me that a reply had been posted and I thought this thread had died with the first reply that came in. Much appreciated that you all kept it going.

Sam - in answer to your question - when all is said and done I just want a car that will provide a kick-ass ride with a smooth power curve. I don't drag or anything. I like twists, turns, and curves. I would like them more if I could go through them faster and smoother. That's where the mods come in. If I wanted a drag car I'd build a drag car. I want a little sleeper import that can hold its own when the curves come into play and can suprise the bejeezus out of someone at a stop light, should the need occur. The rest - don't really care.

Cobb is starting to look like the best option here - AccessPort only. I think I'd really be bending over if I went with their exhaust as well. Gabe - will definitely take you up on the offer when you're down for it.

Thanks again all - much appreciated - and keep it going if there's anything else to say.

Mr Kleen · Post by **Mr Kleen** » Wed Jun 14, 2006 9:57 pm

get the AP first. Stage 1 (no other mods needed) IS noticeable. once you get a TBE, Stage 2 is

Stage 3 requires a new turbo, fuel pump and injectors. (maybe after she's paid off...)

Post by **Sabre** » Thu Jun 15, 2006 11:33 am

Mr Kleen wrote:get the AP first. Stage 1 (no other mods needed) IS noticeable. once you get a TBE, Stage 2 is

Stage 3 requires a new turbo, fuel pump and injectors. (maybe after she's paid off...)

DamSedan · Post by **DamSedan** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:27 am

I got my AP for $600 flat. Not a bad deal. It took about 30 minutes to get it reflashed and I was driving home w/ a significant gain in both boost and torque. I am definately a set it & forget it kind of guy. I know enough about tuning to blow the engine. I also know enough to leave it the hell alone!

I am at stage II and the stock map is fine. You can tell the difference and it has satisfied my craving for more power. Even to the degree that I am back to thinking of just getting a vf34 and then a protune or custom map from PDX by email!

However, Utec is a great product. Locally we are fortunate to have the greatest tuners available to us. I mean, in my case txs is less than 5 miles away. Top that off with the fact that there are alot of members here and on NASIOC that have already been through all the tuning crap or know enough about the system that they can help you out.

In my case, I can not have any check engine lights come on or the wife will be very suspecious of what is going on under the hood of the car. We do not want any unneeded attention in that area at all.

I would have to say that it all depends on the type of person you are. If you like to play with stuff then the utec is awesome and provides the user with total control for the most part. Then again, you can spend the extra $200 and get the street tuner software which will allow you to do the same.

oldfart racer · Post by **oldfart racer** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:58 pm

One other thing to think about is the AP keeps mast of the factory safe grauds, the UTEC will not. The UTEC can also be a pain whenthe weather changes. I run the AP with ST software. My buddy had a UTEC and went Hydra.
PS Element will tune with the ST and AP.

zaxrex · Post by **zaxrex** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:07 am

Don't know exactly what you mean by safeguards.

If by that you mean the UTEC will allow you to run higher boost levels, more advanced ignition, launch control, and flat shifting, then yes, those factory restrictions are over-run and you can cause damage to the drivetrain/exhaust/transmission.

The UTEC will still let you keep the rev limiter, cold start management, over-temp limp mode, short term and long term fuel trim monitoring, and complete OBD-II functionality. Those "safeguards" are still operational and important to me.

I'm not saying you can't blow a piston, float the valves, spin a bearing, or jump a tooth in the timing belt, etc. with a UTEC, but those things can happen in an unmodified engine or with one running an AP or standalone.

I would agree the UTECs are more user intensive and not as slick as an AP, but it allows me to tinker, poke around, and understand what is going on. I have had plenty of opportunities to blow my engine, but for some reason, that hasn't happened yet.

sirwilliam · Post by **sirwilliam** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:05 am

zaxrex wrote:I have had plenty of opportunities to blow my engine, but for some reason, that hasn't happened yet.

Don't jinx it.

Post by **Sabre** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:10 am