Subaru Impreza WRX STI 206 Debuts

[PGT]

400hp is harder than you think with a stock turbo.

S203, S204, and S205 have always been JDM-only; I'm sure this will be the same.

[Sabre]

400 crank HP is easy, 400WHP on a stock turbo takes E85 and water injection... and even then it might not even do it. Turbo swap is much easier!

[PGT]

not on the '07+ motors. I managed 303/313 on my '08 with Fujitsubo TBE, Cobb Stg II and an AEM intake. Still 10% short, assuming 20% drivetrain losses. The tuners stopped pushing the limits with the '07 and on cars b/c of blowing motors.

[Raven]

400 crank HP is easy, 400WHP on a stock turbo takes E85 and water injection... and even then it might not even do it. Turbo swap is much easier!

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

[drwrx]

To get to 320 whp on a stock turbo STi with pump gas generally requires more booost than the injectors and pump can support.
It has been done, usually with fuel mods mentioned, as well as CAI, FMIC, headers, uppipe and catless TBE with a freeflowing (read: loud) exhaust.
One of the resons you don't see many stock turbo cars going this route is that once you have pulled all that you might as well swap the snail and get 400 whp.

[avriette]

400hp is harder than you think with a stock turbo.

S203, S204, and S205 have always been JDM-only; I'm sure this will be the same.

I had meant with a different turbo.

[avriette]

This is all frankly kind of a bummer. I don't mean to be a drag on the Subaru folks, but I had gotten to the point with the 06 STI that I was totally at the limits of what it could do, power and traction-wise. Wifey loved the car and wants something that's kind of mean and sharp, but I want something that's downright evil (when provoked) that she can still drive comfortably. It would be nice if I could just ask Subaru for a 400hp STI (like the FQ400), and put it into consideration with the other stuff we're looking at (which I won't really go into here). Or, say, a 300hp STI that weighed 3200lbs. That didn't plow like a dead whale. Ok, I said I wouldn't be a drag. It's just frustrating. I'd like to be able to put her in an STI, but I am just not going to buy a car -- even if it's nominally her car -- that doesn't make me happy because I cannot stand the notion of paying a car note for something I don't love. The trick is finding the intersection.

Also, bring on the turbo BRZ Elise-stalker.

[PGT]

the GRB has HUGE limits compared to the GDB. The '11 got reworked suspension with stiffer springs and spherical bearings instead of a bushings. A basic turbo upgrade and associated plumbing and tune, you can EASILY get 400whp. A competent tuner can put three maps on the SI Drive system....one for daily driving (detuned to as little as you want), one for fun driving and then a third for "brutal", mapping throttle, etc along with full power.

That said, you're bolting $15k on a $35k car and it doesn't equal a $50k car in quality. I loved mine but the '08 motor is questionable and the paint was paper thin. I might take a run at an '12....hard to beat for a DD.

[avriette]

That said, you're bolting $15k on a $35k car and it doesn't equal a $50k car in quality. I loved mine but the '08 motor is questionable and the paint was paper thin. I might take a run at an '12....hard to beat for a DD.

That's the equation that eventually killed the STI for me. I could link to it but it's not really that relevant -- I got to the point where I wanted slicks and stiffer sways for the street and realized I was going to seriously hurt the car without dedicating to lots of investment. And, really, did I want that much money put into a Subaru? Sure, I liked the car... but when you talk $55-65k for a Subaru that performs like, say, a car that comes from the factory for $70-90k with a warranty, it seems to me that something is lost in the comparison.

I do know people will disagree with this idea. I spent a lot of money building a 280ZX Turbo up to C5 Z06 vette performance. I never spent anything like a Vette in costs for the Z, but then I built that Z by hand. Maybe I've grown out of that. These days, I want to be able to buy something that meets these specifications, rather than make something that fits my need. But that market segment is vanishingly small and getting smaller as my tastes evolve.

[PGT]

I'm finding that I want a great, capable DD and then an extra "fun" vehicle. Whether it be an interesting SUV or something that's uber-focused, like a sports car or some classic german thing.

No single car hits all the things I want either.

[drwrx]

Honestly Alex, I'm not certain I follow your logic. I don't think it takes $55-65k to make an STi perform at the levels you are talking about. Even starting with a $35k STi. Turbo, injectors, pump, IC and TBE shouldn't run more than $3k. Throw in a tune (with a couple of maps as PGT described) and your still around $3.5k. Add a good set of coilovers and sways for another $2K with a correct alighnment. Add a set of steel brake lines with DOT 4 fluid for $200 and your basically done. If you want to talk wheels and tires OK, but the tires that would "markedly" exceed the stock STi rubber isn't coming stock on $70K-$90k cars. You are talking ADVAN Neovas, Z1 Star Specs or Sport Cups. With those additions you are now easily exceeding cars that are 2X that outlay in cash.

It sounds to me like you want something along the lines of M3 / M5 / C63 / E63 / RS4 / 911 / CTS-V / Z06-Vette.
To which I would say enjoy, but each of those come with their own set of caveats.

And yes, your tastes do appear to be that market segment that is vanishingly small and getting smaller.

[Raven]

Honestly Alex, I'm not certain I follow your logic. I don't think it takes $55-65k to make an STi perform at the levels you are talking about. Even starting with a $35k STi. Turbo, injectors, pump, IC and TBE shouldn't run more than $3k. Throw in a tune (with a couple of maps as PGT described) and your still around $3.5k. Add a good set of coilovers and sways for another $2K with a correct alighnment. Add a set of steel brake lines with DOT 4 fluid for $200 and your basically done. If you want to talk wheels and tires OK, but the tires that would "markedly" exceed the stock STi rubber isn't coming stock on $70K-$90k cars. You are talking ADVAN Neovas, Z1 Star Specs or Sport Cups. With those additions you are now easily exceeding cars that are 2X that outlay in cash.

It sounds to me like you want something along the lines of M3 / M5 / C63 / E63 / RS4 / 911 / CTS-V / Z06-Vette.
To which I would say enjoy, but each of those come with their own set of caveats.

And yes, your tastes do appear to be that market segment that is vanishingly small and getting smaller.

I'd add a built short block to that list for reliable handling of said massive increase in power.

I'd also like to add that just because a car plows at the limit, it doesn't mean it's slow. The STi has proven it has the grip to play with cars that are much more performance focused.

[avriette]

I'd add a built short block to that list for reliable handling of said massive increase in power.

yeah, this. I would be thinking the same route Julian went, which is a real pain to do right because so much of it is custom crafted for the application. And my suspension/tire/brake configurations worry me. I haven't heard of people tearing control arms on Subarus, but I've certainly done that before (er, not on the Subaru). When you start getting into bespoke pieces, things get ugly (and pretty...) quickly.
[/quote]

I'd also like to add that just because a car plows at the limit, it doesn't mean it's slow. The STi has proven it has the grip to play with cars that are much more performance focused.

No, of course not. The Elise in fact plows pretty heavily and I don't think anyone would argue it's a slow car. There's a fine line between what you want in terms of the way a car feels, and what actually makes sense for going fast. It's always going to be a blend of the two, but I think everyone's tastes in these directions are different enough that there is a very broad spectrum of capabilities and driving feel on the market. You've got things like the Elise on one hand, the SLS on the other, and a huge spectrum in the middle.

Sorry to moan and bitch, I'll stop now.

[PGT]

yeah, this. I would be thinking the same route Julian went, which is a real pain to do right because so much of it is custom crafted for the application. And my suspension/tire/brake configurations worry me. I haven't heard of people tearing control arms on Subarus, but I've certainly done that before (er, not on the Subaru). When you start getting into bespoke pieces, things get ugly (and pretty...) quickly.

on an STI? Not a chance. Lesser models have had issues with torn rubber control arm bushings but that's because they're soft mushy stuff. Besides, a $100 kit fixes that...the only hard thing about it is that they need to be pressed in. The 2012 STI has spherical bearings here......not even the GrN hardened rubber mounts but DIRECT FUCKING JOINTS. I don't think you're at risk of tearing it...it's METAL.




Quit being a sissy-poofter!

[Sabre]

Ya, the chances of tearing a control arm are very low. Think about it this way: Most of the RallyCross guys run 2.5RS's. Figure 5-10 races a year with 15 laps a race. That is over some VERY rough terrain and the cars never have issues with that.

DrWRX has it right on the money and power mods too.

If you're having a hard time choosing between a car for her and a car for you... get two

[avriette]

I don't think you're at risk of tearing it...it's METAL.

The last control arm I tore was in 1997 on the front right of my Z. This is why AZZcar builds these:

http://arizonazcar.com/lowarms.html

I also tore half shafts (who hasn't, right?), tore up two differentials, a BW T5 tranny, and blew four motors over the life of that car. This is kind of why I wouldn't want to do it again. It was fun when I was younger and kind of had less stuff to do, but now I want my toys to work all the time. It's just not cute. Maybe when I'm old enough to have something like a project Miura (we should all be so lucky), and I can fiddle with it endlessly on my own and be happy for the four days a year it runs and is also sunny, then I'll do it again. I don't have the heart for it.

[Sabre]

Damn, those are purrrrrty!