supasixfo's rsti? build

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supasixfo
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supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by supasixfo »

now that i have a DD, it's time to start putting together plans for the RS. i've worked with the other guys on our team replacing every corner of the evo, but feel engine work is best left to others. Helped a friend do a miata swap, and some xp helping pull engines/trannies out of evo's.

GOAL: minimalist swap, carve up mountain passes, winter hoodluming, and occasional rallycross

long story short, RS is turning 173k and is burning oil to the tune of a quart every 300ish miles and clutch is goin' hence this thread.

powerplant: like the goal states, i don't have the time/want to fab up custom pieces to make the swap work, so am looking for tried and true, reliable swaps. not shooting for a dyno queen, i'd like as much usable power, particularly down low for rallyX purposes. if it's hitting full boost past 3k, i'm not interested. i've read that wiring is a bit of a nightmare, so will probably take it to ECS so they can make it work after all the pieces are in. been reading up on rs25 and nasioc; looks like a variety of JDM v7-v9 powerplants out there. though v8+ has a twinscroll. need to do some research on usdm swaps for ease of emissions, but have heard that these can get quite pricey. saw ander's thread on EZ30 swap, but heard lots of custom pieces were involved. need to read up on eg33 option...

drivetrain: having a viscous center diff is god's punishment to mankind. I'd like to go the DCCD route unless subaru has another kind of center diff that can open with the handbrake.

timeframe: emphasis on minimalist, i want to collect all the pieces and set aside a few weekends for the RS to be out of commission. i don't want to be sending parts of the car all over the country to get rebuilt and wait and wait and wait. when rally season starts, it's game over.
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by Mr Kleen »

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by Sabre »

Go for a STI 2.5, aka EJ25 swap. Reliable and MUCH easier than a EZ/EG swap. To run DCCD, you'll need to do a full swap, as in consoles, dash etc. I'd recommend the SPIDER controller instead, as you won't have to swap as much. Stick with either stock turbo's (VF series) or even a small after market (18G or maybe 20G with a small exhaust housing). Tuning of the AVCS will be VERY important to get the spool to that. Keep in mind that our piping isn't as efficient as an EVO's, so spool will be slower (the displacement does help a little in this department though). The 07+ STI tranny's have linear gearing, so you'll want to stick to those years unless you get a really good deal on an earlier one.

Hope that helps!
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by supasixfo »

been chatting with the wrx usa guys the past few days putting together this package:

Complete EJ20 engine with all accessories, wiring harness and:
- ECU
- bulkhead harness ( main under dash )
- MAF
- fuel pump w/ sending unit
- fuel pump controller
- intercooler
- engine crossmember
- turbo charger TD04
- down pipe with cat. converter
- radiator
- top mount intercooler ( WRX )
- front and rear o2 sensors

i wanted to make this swap simple as possible. 3rd and 4th gear synchros are going on the stock RS transmission though. thoughts as to how the 2.5rs tranny and drivetrain will hold up to what i'm assuming is an ej205 swap?
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zaxrex
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by zaxrex »

People have used the stock NA drivelines with a WRX swap. Since you know how to take care of a transmissions, I would thing that you would be fine. Even stock WRX motors can be used to bomb a stock ERX trans. But at some point, it will break regardless.

I'm sure you have been all over it already, but there is this. Has a few more things added that isn't on your list, but I don't know what year this is for or anything.
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f128/t36864- ... -swap.html

Sounds fun. Let me know if you need any parts.
Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like stripping your gears
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by Sabre »

Parts or help :) I'd drive up to help ya out!
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by supasixfo »

Hey guys! thanks for your thoughts. I was told they had a 2005 WRX complete swap package ready to go. @zavrex - i have been through part of that thread. thanks for reminding me to ask about things like the wrx throttle cable etc.

@sabre - i have to do some more research on the ej255 and ej257. i think i was under the impression that those variants moved to a DBW system which would mean more complicated changes needed, which i was trying to avoid. i guess if i go that route though, i'd need to consider upgrading the entire drivetrain? axles, driveshaft? etc.? not sure though, need to do more research.
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by zaxrex »

yeah, on a stock RS trans, I think the extra torque from a 2.5 engine could cause some bits to twist that are supposed to be straight.
If you do decide to go that route, I have the e-throttle body already ported and polished ;)
Patience is the ability to idle your motor when you feel like stripping your gears
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by supasixfo »

the stars have been aligning to get this kickstarted. the RS was so great to decide to drop a cylinder a few months ago. 0 compression in #3? so that gave me the kick in the ass i needed to get this going.

it turns out that sourcing an ej255 is not as easy as i would have hoped. i actually started monitoring copart for wrecked wrx's before deciding this was becoming a bit too complicated. no one really stocks these any more even though this seems to have been all the rage about 2-3 years ago. wrxusa is selling its domain, and ecs performance doesn't have anything in stock and quite a bit of a waitlist. if you're looking to do a 2.0L sti swap, this is the time for you! lots of "v6-v9 jdm sti's" going for about 3-8k depending on if you're looking for longblock to full sti transmission/drivetrain swap etc. after staring at a few dyno plots though, i thought about the original goals and wanting lots of torque down low and even though they are equivalent price points, decided a 2.5 block was the way to go. knowing that the ej255 shortblock is essentially the same i also thought that this could provide a decent upgrade path with 257 heads at some point if MOAR powa was desired.

i also made a decision not to go with the full sti drivetrain swap at this time since it would've easily added another 3-5k to the swap costs AND i wanted to be able to spend some time learning about all the torsen/clutch pack/DCCD configuration/diff options before making a decision. having driven a 90 eagle talon and RS for a bit now, what i do know is that i absolutely do not want any part of the configuration to include viscous differential :D.

got some parts from bill petrow @ Broken motorsports. Bill's a good guy. forester trans and rear diff. already merged harness so crossing my figures for plug and play when we cross that bridge!
Image

Before:
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Should've taken a few steps back taking these pictures but, you guys get the idea.

hood, radiator out. harnesses/hoses etc. disconnected.

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dropped the stock exhaust. pulled both axles. mike and william had a couple things to say about the DIY thread i'll link below. like the part where they use the spare tire jack to push the transmission away from the frame of the car so they could separate the axles. that just does not seem like a very smart idea. we decided to do it the normal way and unbolt the suspension from the knuckles. Also, there's a part where they want you to struggle with the lower transmission bolts while the axle is in the way. highly recommend taking the axle out first to make your life a whole lot easier. there's a couple parts where they remove some accessories/belts that are more needed if you are going for subsequent engine disassembly but not needed for a swap.

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I'm dying to figure out what all that sludge is coming from engine/trans/ps rack and collecting on top of the front subframe. ended the day with mike and i going at the engine/trans with a hammer and chisel, and it to starting to separate. hopefully my next post is successful separation of the engine/trans, and the engine will be out!

these threads were pretty useful:
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t63237- ... moval.html
http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t128163 ... orial.html
Alvin
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by Sabre »

So a couple of notes....
To separate the tranny and the engine, you need to remove all of the bolts around the transmission AND the king pin (at least ont he STI's.... maybe the RS's are different! Check out this thread. This thread is the one that talks about the pin removal I'm talking about.

The 257 heads have AVCS, which the 255 ones do not... so that's going to require a wiring harness and ECU change :( A more common approach is the 2L heads on the 2.5 block which people call a hybrid. Those are VERY torquey engines.

The Forester tranny has a different final drive. Great for torque, sucky for gas mileage :(
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by drwrx »

Sabre wrote:The 257 heads have AVCS, which the 255 ones do not... so that's going to require a wiring harness and ECU change :( A more common approach is the 2L heads on the 2.5 block which people call a hybrid.
I'm not really comfortable correcting Julian, but I believe the 255s do have AVCS. It's the 205s that do not, at least not in the US market.
The rest of his comment is spot on!
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by Sabre »

drwrx wrote:I'm not really comfortable correcting Julian, but I believe the 255s do have AVCS. It's the 205s that do not, at least not in the US market.
The rest of his comment is spot on!
Always feel free to!! Shoot, if I have something wrong I want to know!

So according to Wikipedia (so it must be true, lol), EJ engines that I have AVCS:
EJ204 DOHC naturally aspirated AVCS
Legacy B4 RS JDM BE - BH series - 999-2001 190 PS (140 kW)
Legacy JDM BL - BP series - 2003-2009 190 PS (140 kW)
Impreza JDM GC - GF series - 1993-1999 155 PS (114 kW)

EJ20X EJ20Y
These engines are fitted in the JDM legacy BL5 (sedan) and BP5 (Wagon). EJ20X/EJ20Y are open deck engines with thicker cylinder walls than ej25 They are fitted with semi-forged rods and crank. dual AVCS intake & exhaust, 9.5:1 compression and a fast spooling turbo yields a torque filled performance. (265-280 bhp)

EJ257 engine
DOHC 16-valve turbo. Originally designed for the North American Impreza STI in 2004 with AVCS and DBW. The same shortblock as EJ255 except the EJ255 has a different domed piston vs the EJ257. The heads also have different components. Subaru of America designates the same part numbers for an EJ255 shortblock, and EJ257 shortblock with the exception of the pistons.
US Market Impreza WRX STi MY04~MY07 (300 hp, 293 hp (New SAE standard))
US Market Impreza WRX STI MY08~MY14 (305 hp (New SAE standard))
US Market Subaru Legacy/Subaru Outback MY05~MY06
Asian, European Market Impreza WRX STi 05~present (280 hp, 40KG/m)
Some of the EZ engines have it, as well as all (as far as I can tell) the FA/FB's. Looks like the EL did too.
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by Sabre »

Sabre (Julian)
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by supasixfo »

Sabre wrote:So a couple of notes....
To separate the tranny and the engine, you need to remove all of the bolts around the transmission AND the king pin (at least ont he STI's.... maybe the RS's are different! Check out this thread. This thread is the one that talks about the pin removal I'm talking about.
Thanks, i'll give this a lookie for this upcoming weekend!
Sabre wrote:The 257 heads have AVCS, which the 255 ones do not... so that's going to require a wiring harness and ECU change :( A more common approach is the 2L heads on the 2.5 block which people call a hybrid. Those are VERY torquey engines.
i was wondering about this. i believe my heads are coming from an '06 forester ej255. going off this threadhttp://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2034561. this one was also useful for me to read up and learn more about differences in ej255's. http://kcsubaru.com/showthread.php?4288 ... ated-Equal. i'll find out soon enough! i assumed i was going to either have to merge my RS harness anyway. In this case the harness pictured above is the one that i am expecting to swap.
Sabre wrote:The Forester tranny has a different final drive. Great for torque, sucky for gas mileage :(
yeah, i wasn't sure how big of a difference it would end up being at the end. i imagine the RS would become a winter/rallyX car with my brz serving as a dd. It just happened to be an option available to me at the time, but i'm keeping my stock RS trans and diff in case i have second thoughts. eventual goal is the 6speed/sti drivetrain swap whenever i figure out the diffs and get more moneys :D.
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by complacent »

fwiw, i think the fxt final drive is an awesome pairing for the 2.5 block. i've been very happy with it. i think they also had it as an option for similar year outback xt manual trans models.
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by supasixfo »

picking this thread up from the dead. i had planned to complete this over thanksgiving and xmas... [insert build thread excuses here]. Around sept of last year i got a new gig in hartford, so getting shop time was begining to get tough.

we did get to do a big push around the end of thanksgiving week. we pulled the engine at that time.

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Who's the funny looking guy? that's blake. so as i'm taking my RS motor out, blake decides it's a good time to pull his motor too. he bought a used '03 evo about a year ago that was "recently rebuilt" and without consulting us, so of course a few months down the line, the thing blows up and it's hauled into our garage. and thus it began. In one corner of the garage, a 2000 subaru impreza RS, coming in at 160hp, 2800 lbs, and 182,000 miles. and in the other, a 2003 mitsubishi evo, 3200 lbs and 350hp...

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i admit it - i fall into the driver stereotype. i spend most of my time worrying about how to be a better driver, not how to fix all the stuff i break on rallies :). blake had the mechanical advantage and efficiency was on his side. at the same time, he was juggling his work schedule so i had more time at the garage. who will win? everyone at the garage was taking their bets.

on my end, my swap involved rewiring my RS, amongst all the other research required to turn my 2.5RS into a WRX. all blake had to do in theory was drop and swap his engine. IT was ON!

so of course on one fateful december weekend, cat and i did as most couples do; began ripping up the dash to make progress on the RS.

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we rung in the new year by dropping the front subframe, suspension parts, rear diff and driveline.

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and that's basically all the time we had til we were hit with the winter wellsboro rally. until next time, i leave you with this. I call it "billy's picaso":

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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by Sabre »

Great update :) You driving the BRZ as your daily?
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by supasixfo »

yes i have been! thing is north of 25,000 miles already. need to get this rs back on the road :P
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Re: supasixfo's rsti? build

Post by ElZorro »

Awesome man, thanks for taking the time to write it up :)
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