Coilover Q's

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goob_os101
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Coilover Q's

Post by goob_os101 »

I am looking into buying a set of HotBits coilovers for my 92x wagon and I was wondering if I need to buy new tophats and/or camber plates to run these with my stock wheels (16 x 6.5)???
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complacent
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by complacent »

Generally speaking, a quality coil over will have camber plates included.

The size of the wheels shouldn't really be the issue (within reason)

A bigger question would be - are you prepared for rebuilds and the associated downtime?

What are your intentions with the car? Track? Auto-X? "Spirited" driving?

Coil overs are a very purpose-built solution. The few that are well rounded and do *everything* well tend to be north of $2k.

I don't have any experience with that brand in particular. Do you have an idea of what sort of spring rates you're looking at? Do they offer custom valving to match your chosen rates?
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goob_os101
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by goob_os101 »

I would like to possibly autox, but mostly spirited driving. The HotBits coilover spring rates are the front 230mmx50Kg and the rears are 200mmx40Kg. Convert KG to LBS by multiplying by 5.61.

I was looking into just spring with my stock stuts, but my struts already have 70k on them so they won't last much longer. The price of the coilovers are $400 w/ 3k on them.

Here are som associated links:

http://www.hotbits.org/america.htm

http://www.hotbits.com.au/
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Sabre
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by Sabre »

You technically don't need tophats/camber plats when you get coilovers, but it's one of those things that people usually do since "they are in there already". They also help when it comes time to align the car, which you HAVE to do after putting coilovers on.

Just a FYI: Most coilovers are not street friendly, but they have gotten better. The more $$$ you spend, the better (in general) they will be.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by wrxSIN »

depends how serious you are. for DD, i wouldnt bother with camber plates. if you auto-x frequently and track your car alot, i would get camber plates just cause you would need to run alot of camber anyways. tires/wheels > camber plates anyways.
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goob_os101
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by goob_os101 »

pretty pricy for street coilovers;

Impreza WRX 2.0 Turbo 2001- HB.SS 25-203-ADJ $2,193.00
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by drwrx »

My default position on coilovers is don't bother unless:
1. you absolutely want the finest / most adjustable suspension and best handling vehicle.
2. you intend to track the car quite a bit.
3. you have money to burn.

Honestly, a good set of springs (STi Pinks, Tein H-Tech, Tanabe GF210, Eibach, RCE or Swift) and struts (KYB AGX with spacers, Koni sport inserts or Tokico D-Spec) will more than meet 99% of most people's needs for daily driving with some spirited track days. Watch the NASI@¢ "used for sale" boards and your bound to find something you'll like for cheap.

If your thinking coilovers you should also be looking at a set of sticky summer only tires. Tire Rack currently has Dunlop SP Sport Maxx for $75 each for 215/45/17. That is a super bargain for a tire that scored better than the Bridgestone S-03 Pole Position and the Pirelli P Zero Rosso in a Tire Rack track test. It scored 6th out of 11 in the Car & Driver max performance tire shoot-out.

As a lowered wagon owner I recommended the 215/40/17 because I had 225/45/17s and I would rub the rears on hard cornering. 215/40/17 are wider (8.7") than 215/45/17 (8.4") and are slightly lower (23.8" vs 24.6") for a better final drive ratio.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by goob_os101 »

$400 with only 3k on them made me :wiggle: want to get them. I asked a couple lowered wagons about camber plates...all said I should be fine with stock camber bolts or I can buy aftermaket bolts. I saw some that allow up to -/+ 3. I was looking at those tires right now and 17 x 8 Drag d-9's:

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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by drwrx »

Stay away from 8" wide wheels on the wagon. There are lots of posts on folks that tried and regretted it after the fact.
Width on the wagons is key! Wide wheels / tires will rub! Unless you plan to roll your fenders.
My all-time favorite wheels for a wagon are Kosei K1 TS. 17" x 7" $196 and 14.6 lbs!
Seriously keep your width to 7-7.5" and look for wheels that are are around 18 lbs or lighter.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by wrxSIN »

goob_os101 wrote:$400 with only 3k on them made me :wiggle: want to get them. I asked a couple lowered wagons about camber plates...all said I should be fine with stock camber bolts or I can buy aftermaket bolts. I saw some that allow up to -/+ 3. I was looking at those tires right now and 17 x 8 Drag d-9's:
i would get bolts at least. but it really depends on how much camber you wanna run. for frequent auto-x, i run -2.5 front, and ~-1.5 rear. for DD, ide aim for -1.5f/-1r for like one or two auto-x and "spirited" drives.
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complacent
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by complacent »

The good Dr. is wise in these matters - I'd heed his warnings muchly.

That being said, for ~$400 - that's tempting.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by zaxrex »

goob_os101 wrote:stock camber bolts
I may have missed something over the years, but I was not aware that Saabarus had rear camber bolts stock from the factory.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by goob_os101 »

my bad I meant stock hats or aftermarket bolts :poke:
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by drwrx »

You can probably get away with stock top hats, but you will certainly need camber bolts in the rear.
Again, wagons are tricky. The suspension set-up that's perfect for WRX sedans rarely isn't wagons. Our track is narrower and standard sedan spring and strut combos (as well as coil-overs) sit high in the front and low in the back. Now, with proper adjustment, coil-overs will work just fine, but the settings that will come "recommended" for the sedan just won't fly for the wagon. A good alignment shop can do this without too much fuss, but it won't be cheap.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by goob_os101 »

I was wondering if I still need the Saggy butt spacers even though I can adjust the rear height to negate the difference?

Love this look...both are running 9's
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drwrx
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by drwrx »

With the coil-overs you won't need the saggy-butt spacers you should be able to adjust them to your liking.
Both those wagons look real nice in pics, but on hard cornering I'm willing to bet they rub. There just isn't enough clearance there.
If your thinking cheap you may want to look at this:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1595042
A complete 2004 STI take-off suspension set including everything for a direct swap. True mileage is unknown, approximately 70K mi, are in good working condition, no leaks, normal weather / rusts. These have not been re-greased so they are noisy as they are known for. $200 OBO. Pick up only.
For this set-up you would likely want the saggy-butt spacers, and you may want a set of wagon specific springs. I'm currently running STi Pinks (there are no STi Pink Springs that are wagon speciific) with wagon specific STi 4 way adjustable struts. My rear does sag a bit and I have a pretty aggressive camber set-up.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by avriette »

ahem. Ohlins. caveat per drwrx: if you got the cash to burn.
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Mr Kleen
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by Mr Kleen »

avriette wrote:ahem. Ohlins. caveat per drwrx: if you got the cash to burn.
ohlins on a daily driver?!? :rolllaugh: money to burn doesn't even begin to describe that scenario! :rolllaugh:
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by avriette »

Mr Kleen wrote:
avriette wrote:ahem. Ohlins. caveat per drwrx: if you got the cash to burn.
ohlins on a daily driver?!? :rolllaugh: money to burn doesn't even begin to describe that scenario! :rolllaugh:
call me partial to having my ass bolted to the ground.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by complacent »

avriette wrote:
Mr Kleen wrote:
avriette wrote:ahem. Ohlins. caveat per drwrx: if you got the cash to burn.
ohlins on a daily driver?!? :rolllaugh: money to burn doesn't even begin to describe that scenario! :rolllaugh:
call me partial to having my ass bolted to the ground.
Actually, the Ohlins fixed-perch struts are quite nice if you don't want the hassle of coilovers but still are okay with emptying your wallet.

Racecomp sells them locally IIRC.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by goob_os101 »

pulling the trigger on these puppies. Picking them up hopefully tomorrow.

So, anyone want to help install some coilovers :rolllaugh: ,camber bolts, downpipe, up pipe, spark plugs, load XPT stage II map, oil presure sender rleocation, water temp adapter... :eek:

lots of work to do.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by Mr Kleen »

you have a garage? the coilovers will be easy to install, not sure about adjusting them. i'd let who ever does your alignment install the camber bolts. UP and DP are a chore...
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by drwrx »

Here's the problem with the install of the coilovers. Your buying them used and likely they were on a sedan so the settings will not be correct. To get them properly aligned with proper camber, caster and toe you will need to have it done at a facility that does corner weighting and those are few and pricey. Yes, you saved money on the coilovers now you will be forced to pay to have them set-up correctly. Yes, coilovers are adjustable, but you are likely to never raise or lower the ride height because it will affect your camber and you have to be pretty precise when you put it back to your desired ride height so as not to throw anything off. So now you're left with compression and rebound adjustment which you could have gotten out of a set of AGX for $450 brand new.
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by goob_os101 »

Mr Kleen wrote:you have a garage? the coilovers will be easy to install, not sure about adjusting them. i'd let who ever does your alignment install the camber bolts. UP and DP are a chore...
I do not , but I use Ft. Myer's Hobby shop.

What are the chances, but these did come off a 03 wrx wagon. :plusone: That helped in the decision process.

Called Ptuning:
Alignment and Corner Balancing Rates:
4 wheel alignment: $125

*Most likely I will not even need camber bolts ($26)
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Re: Coilover Q's

Post by drwrx »

goob_os101 wrote:these did come off a 03 wrx wagon.)
The suspension set-ups changed from the 02-03 to the 04-05. The 02-03 are more like the 98-01 suspensions.
goob_os101 wrote:*Most likely I will not even need camber bolts ($26)
Here's hoping. Who knows, you might get lucky.
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