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scheherazade
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+- 1%

Post by scheherazade »

I'm thinking of selling the 225 RFTs that come with the 335 and just putting normal 245 or 255's all around. (RFTs sell well enough to pay for the switch, and people complain RFTs only last for about 10-15k miles, and they degrade really fast. So I figure ditch them while they're worth something.).

The 245's would be a little smaller diameter than stock, the 255's would be a little bigger. All within a 2% spread.

Any preferences?

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complacent
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Re: +- 1%

Post by complacent »

Go for as much patch as you can. 255s all the way.
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Re: +- 1%

Post by drwrx »

There are a couple of issues you need to be aware of with the tires on the 335.
1. They are different widths front and rear because the wheels are different widths:
18 x 8.0 Fr & 18 x 8.5 Rr the tires are P225/40R18 Fr & P255/35R18 Rr
2. The 255/35R18 rim width spec is 8.5" so it is unlikely that you will get it on a 8" wheel.
3. they wear fast NOT because they are run flats, but because they are Bridgestone RE050As and their treadlife is only rated at 140. That is damn low. By comparison the Sumitomo HTR III is rated at 300, more than twice the treadlife!

Your stock tires are RE050A 225/40ZR18 $206 FR. 255/35ZR18 $249.
Not a bad tire but never one I would ever recommend as there are better for less.
Also, if your going to swap tires, I would swap all four and here are two I would recommend:

Sumitomo HTR III 225/40ZR18 $110 FR. 255/35ZR18 $169
Same performance category but beats the RE050A in every category, and is much cheaper and lasts longer.

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec 225/40ZR18 $158 FR. 255/35ZR18 $220
Higher performance category and is a far better performer, probably the best street tire you can buy right now. Yet is still cheaper, and has a higher treadlife, rated at 200!
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complacent
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Re: +- 1%

Post by complacent »

drwrx wrote:There are a couple of issues you need to be aware of with the tires on the 335.
1. They are different widths front and rear because the wheels are different widths:
18 x 8.0 Fr & 18 x 8.5 Rr the tires are P225/40R18 Fr & P255/35R18 Rr
2. The 255/35R18 rim width spec is 8.5" so it is unlikely that you will get it on a 8" wheel.
3. they wear fast NOT because they are run flats, but because they are Bridgestone RE050As and their treadlife is only rated at 140. That is damn low. By comparison the Sumitomo HTR III is rated at 300, more than twice the treadlife!

Your stock tires are RE050A 225/40ZR18 $206 FR. 255/35ZR18 $249.
Not a bad tire but never one I would ever recommend as there are better for less.
Also, if your going to swap tires, I would swap all four and here are two I would recommend:

Sumitomo HTR III 225/40ZR18 $110 FR. 255/35ZR18 $169
Same performance category but beats the RE050A in every category, and is much cheaper and lasts longer.

Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec 225/40ZR18 $158 FR. 255/35ZR18 $220
Higher performance category and is a far better performer, probably the best street tire you can buy right now. Yet is still cheaper, and has a higher treadlife, rated at 200!
That's what I get for not researching the issue asked. :oops:

FWIW, I have the Z1's and have been very impressed/pleased with their performance. They're great in every condition I've thrown them at, including auto-X.
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Re: +- 1%

Post by scheherazade »

I could replace the rims.

I was thinking of 8.5 18" all around.

These seem decent and not too expensive :

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/WheelClo ... ort=Weight

$179 for closeout price on the silver

The stock rims are around 22 or 24 lbs I think, these are around 20. So it's not much better, but not bad. Plus the price is low enough to where I would have to pay a lot more for a little bit less weight.

I don't really care about the looks much, just the weight. And it looks like the options below 20lbs are pretty slim. $300 vs $180 for 2lbs difference (18lbs), I donno. Seems like a good deal for these...

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Re: +- 1%

Post by drwrx »

Just make sure you can get a 8.5" wheel inside the front fenders. It's only a .5" so I would expect they would, but you never know.

Don't get too hung-up on weight. I'm a bit of a weight weenie when it comes to wheels but you need to look at the big picture. You have a wheel that weighs 22 lbs and one that weighs 18 lbs and that seems like a lot, 4 lbs or around 20% lighter.

Than you go and put 255/35R18 tires weighing 27 lbs. Now they weigh 49 lbs and 45 lbs. So now your down to around 8% lighter, or as my daddy would say "a whole who gives a crap" lighter.

That being said, Kosei K3s at $179 are fine wheels and at 20.4 lbs are very light for a 18" x 8.5" wheel.
the 19" x 8.5" are even cheaper at $129 and only weigh 22 lbs. thats a $200 dollar difference and might be worth it.

You might also want to look at the ASA JH8 18" x 8.5" for $149 they weigh only 23lbs
or the 18" x 9.5" which are only $109 and weigh 24 lbs (we're getting to that 4 lb threshold I spoke of).

You could also go with the ASA AR2 18" x 8" for $169 weighing 23 lbs. They are one of the best looking wheels out there I think. You could shod them with 245/40R18 rubber, they would fit on the wheels, be slightly taller 25.6" vs 25" and only give-up .4" in section width 9.8" vs 10.2" vs. the 255/35R18.
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Re: +- 1%

Post by scheherazade »

yeah, the 19" kosei's are cheaper, but 19" tires are way more expensive.
But I'm afraid that the 19s are just overkill. Like they don't have enough rubber to take a hit safely.

255/35 18 in front is ok (apparently so is 265, but I'd rather not push my luck)
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177468

I think that if I went with 8.0", then I'd just keep my stock wheels.

Will 8.5" rims mount 265's fine? What is the 'optimal' rim width in the range of 245 -> 265?

I have a $1200 offer for my stock wheels/rims. So most the stuff so far looks like it would be ~about covered by that.

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Re: +- 1%

Post by sirwilliam »

scheherazade wrote:yeah, the 19" kosei's are cheaper, but 19" tires are way more expensive.
But I'm afraid that the 19s are just overkill. Like they don't have enough rubber to take a hit safely.

255/35 18 in front is ok (apparently so is 265, but I'd rather not push my luck)
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177468

I think that if I went with 8.0", then I'd just keep my stock wheels.

Will 8.5" rims mount 265's fine? What is the 'optimal' rim width in the range of 245 -> 265?

I have a $1200 offer for my stock wheels/rims. So most the stuff so far looks like it would be ~about covered by that.

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Re: +- 1%

Post by drwrx »

scheherazade wrote: Will 8.5" rims mount 265's fine?
Nope. The width range for a 265/35ZR18 tire is 9" - 10.5"
scheherazade wrote: What is the 'optimal' rim width in the range of 245 -> 265?
I would go with a 9" to 9.5"

The problem now is that there are not that many 18" x 9" or 18" x 9.5" wheels that are a decent weight and not crazy expensive:

Here is what I'd say:
ASA JH8 18" x 9.5" $109 (closeout) $440
24 lbs (pretty damn light for a 18" x 9.5")
255/35-18
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec: $158 (each) $632
Sumitomo HTR Z III: $111.00 (each) $444

That should meet your requirement. However, you will likely have to have pressure sensors installed and there will be shipping as well.
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Re: +- 1%

Post by Sabre »

drwrx wrote:Sumitomo HTR Z III: $111.00 (each) $444
That should meet your requirement. However, you will likely have to have pressure sensors installed and there will be shipping as well.
I have to admit, mine are great, esp. for the price :)
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Re: +- 1%

Post by scheherazade »

One other thought I had. I might be able to swap the front rims for rear rims.
I got he 17" rims because I was planning on replacing them (why pay for bmw 18s when you're gonna get different ones anyways, ya know?).

If I swapped the front ones for rears (nearly no cost to me from dealer), I'd have 8.5" wide all around.

They are 20 lbs each, so it's not too shabby.

In all seriousness, is a 17" going to be about as good as an 18", all-in-all?
I know people say side wall not as stiff blah blah, but I don't know if it's serious or just people nit picking.

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Re: +- 1%

Post by drwrx »

scheherazade wrote:In all seriousness, is a 17" going to be about as good as an 18", all-in-all?
I know people say side wall not as stiff blah blah, but I don't know if it's serious or just people nit picking.
That is a common question that is not easy to answer. More sidewall flex does not always add up to less lateral grip or speed. There are all sorts of schools of thought on this, but most break down into two camps. One says "go as wide as you can and as low as you can" the other "go as wide as you can and don't worry about profile unless you are rubbing or adding to the final drive ratio."

On certain tires, sidewall flex can certainly be felt, but in the upper realm of Ultra high performance, Max performance. Extreme performance and dedicated track tires the extra sidewall height doesn't always add up to slower lap times. It usually shows in steering response and initial turn-in feel. There are tons and tons of tire tests where words like "Tire X didn't feel as responsive as tire Y yet still turned faster lap times." The Hoosier A6 track tire is a really good example of this. Lots of folks comment on it's "lack of steering feel" and most credit this to it's softer sidewall, yet it still is one of the top rated track tires available.

When it comes to dedicated track tires, most people agree that width matters but not as much as you might think, and profile does not matter nearly much as you might think.

If your thinking 17s" you could grab some Kosei K1 Racing wheels for $175 each. The are 17" x 8.5" and weigh only 16.5 lbs. and also one of my all time favorite wheels.
You could shod them with 255/40ZR17 Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs for $144 each, or Sumitomo HTR Z III for $99. That gets you to $1,276 or $1,096.
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Re: +- 1%

Post by zaxrex »

one more fly in the ointment...

even tires of the same spec (255/45/17) from different manufacturers are not the same size.

I had two sets of identical wheels with different make tires of the same spec <above> mounted. I stacked them side by side and noticed that one pile was half a width taller than the other one. I measured the tread width to be similar across the two sets, so I am just thinking that it was sidewall thickness or something. But where do you start and stop measuring tire width anyways?
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Re: +- 1%

Post by scheherazade »

Well, I like the K1s the most so far.
One hitch, I don't know if I'll ever want a BBK in the future.
I read around the e90 forums to see if anyone has mounted one on 17s and found no mention of anyone fitting a 335 BBK (stoptech, brembo) under 17s. (There was a mention of a wilwood BBK on an e36 with the K1s)

drwrx << kosei 19s, can you recommend tires for those?

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Re: +- 1%

Post by drwrx »

The Kosei K1s are only available in 15, 16 & 17"
If you want a Kosei wheel in 19" your stuck with the Kosei K3 at $129 (22 lbs damn light for a 19" x 8.5") there is also an 18" x 8.5 for $179.

It gets hard to recommend tires unless you know the width of the wheel.

for an 19" x 8.5" width wheel your max width will be around 255 but I would stick with 245/35ZR19
Here are the 245/35ZR19 I would go with:
Sumitomo HTR Z III ($188)
Falken Fk452 ($142)
Fuzion ZRi ($155)
Kuhmo SPT ($162)
Kumho Ecsta MX ($173) be aware this is not a great wet tire
Bridgestone Potenza RE-01R ($270.00)

For 255/35ZR19:
Sumitomo HTR Z III ($209)
Kumho Ecsta SPT ($185)

And the 255/30ZR19:
Kumho Ecsta SPT ($157)
Hankook Ventus S1 evo ($223.00) These are a big maybe
Dunlop SP Sport Maxx ($251.00) These would be my #2

I would stay away from 19" x 9.5" wheels unless you really love them as they will either be A) crazy expensive. B) crazy heavy. And if your limited to 265 width, your tire choices will also be very limited and very pricey ($250 minimum)
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Re: +- 1%

Post by scheherazade »

Had anyone used wheel spacers before?

Would you consider 10mm (with hub-centric ring) to be 'safe' ?




edit : Also, I noticed that no one has mentioned any all-season tyres. Are they much worse performance? Or is the loss of performance generally not offset by the gains in inclement weather handling?

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Re: +- 1%

Post by complacent »

scheherazade wrote:Had anyone used wheel spacers before?

Would you consider 10mm (with hub-centric ring) to be 'safe' ?
I've read in a few places now that spacers greater than 5mm is risking wheel bearings and no spacers at all is greatly preferred.
scheherazade wrote: edit : Also, I noticed that no one has mentioned any all-season tyres. Are they much worse performance? Or is the loss of performance generally not offset by the gains in inclement weather handling?

-scheherazade

Most of us are a two-wheel-and-tire-set group. The all weather abilities tend to detract as much from the performance as much as the performance abilities tend to detract from the all weather abilities.

That being said, I keep two sets of wheels and tires for my FXT.
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Re: +- 1%

Post by scheherazade »

I guess it doesn't matter too much with the all weather.

I mean, it snows (and stick) for like 4 days a year around here...



edit :
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs
Sumitomo HTR Z III

Anyone used both in the rain? Is one clearly better?


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Re: +- 1%

Post by complacent »

scheherazade wrote:I guess it doesn't matter too much with the all weather.

I mean, it snows (and stick) for like 4 days a year around here...



edit :
Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs
Sumitomo HTR Z III

Anyone used both in the rain? Is one clearly better?


-scheherazade
I can only speak for the Z1s. They are awesome in the rain, and absolutely retarded (good) in the dry. I've been quite pleased. I know Sabre has a set of the III's.
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Re: +- 1%

Post by scheherazade »

You all might find this interesting :

http://www.tirereview.com/?type=art&id=3283&

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Re: +- 1%

Post by drwrx »

Decent article, and I like that it showed the torque loss from the extra 4.5 lbs of weight (239.1 vs. 231.1 at 3,000 rpms). However, that is only 8 lbft (around 3%) and dyno runs can vary as much as 5% per run without any changes, so it's not that remarkable. He also It also doesn't speak about tire weight or wether or not that extra 4.5 lbs made any difference in true performance (no 0-60 or 1/4 mile times).
Look at 2,800 rpm. There is a 36 ft.-lbs. drop! As the rpm increased, the variation became smaller. But the impact was greatest in the critical range where you would typically launch.
Look at what? there is no dyno plot posted so I have no clue what he's referring to. This leads me to wonder about his dyno methods, as somehow he gains nearly all of that 36 ft-lbs. in just 200 rpms, that makes me think that there are some irregularities between the dyno runs. If you start a dyno run at 1,200 rpms on one run and another at 1,800 rpms on another, the values will vary until the engine reaches it's ideal VE (volumetric efficiency).
edit : Also, I noticed that no one has mentioned any all-season tyres. Are they much worse performance? Or is the loss of performance generally not offset by the gains in inclement weather handling?
The reason I didn't include all season tires is because the stock tires are max performance summer tires and I wanted to give you alternatives that are in that performance range. For Ultra High performance All Season i would recmend the Falken Zeix 912s. They are the best I've ever ridden on, and some of the least expensive, what more could you want. The dry performance drop from Max performance summer to Ultra High performance All Season will be noticeable! The All Seasons only outperform Summer only in freezing or near freezing temps and in heavy rain or snow, that's it.

I would say get a set of dedicated snow tires for the 3 months that you are likely to encounter snow in this area. Get the cheapest, narrowest wheels you can fit under the car and put a set of good studless snowtires on them. Watch for Tire Rack and Dicount Tire Direct for specials.
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Re: +- 1%

Post by Sabre »

complacent wrote:
scheherazade wrote:Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Specs
Sumitomo HTR Z III
Anyone used both in the rain? Is one clearly better?
-scheherazade
I can only speak for the Z1s. They are awesome in the rain, and absolutely retarded (good) in the dry. I've been quite pleased. I know Sabre has a set of the III's.
Indeed I can. While not as sticky as my Yokohama Advan Neova 07's, they did very well during our AutoX class and should last a lot longer. They are a very quiet tire (as compared to the RE70's and the Advan's) and handle rain better than expected. I have not tried them in snow/ice as I have a dedicated winter tire for that. They are very predictable at their limits and will let you know when they are near it.
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